ok, here's the question

ok, here's the question

PostBy: fish guide On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 4:51 pm

I have been heating my house with a harmon TLC 2000 using anthracite nut coal for ten years and it has worked very well. I love it. Here's the question. We are moving to western Wyoming and I am planning to install another Harmon TLC 2000 in the new home and continue heating with coal. The coal available is bituminus or sub bituminuous coal from southwest wyoming or north central Utah. Does anyone have any experience with burning that stuff in a modern Harmon stove like this? I will have to commit to buying around 20 tons to get it delivered. What size works best? nut coal like I have been using? Bigger? Smaller? It is a big financial committment to buy that much coal at once for me and there are no retail outlets. You go right to the mine and arrange trucking. I can't afford to make a big mistake
fish guide
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: harmon TLC 2000

Re: ok, here's the question

PostBy: Lightning On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:29 pm

I don't have a Harmon, but I have tried bit in my Clayton.. You wanna use bigger sized.. Like tennis ball and soft ball sizes, maybe even bigger. The small sized bit is hard to control. Bituminous is a different beast but I'm sure you'll get a grip on it. It seems to burn kinda more like wood, needs lots of over the fire air. It will be an adjustment to settle into it, it behaves differently than anthracite. How much per ton will it cost? Have you seen the specs on it, like ash content or Btus per pound?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut Size / White Ash

Re: ok, here's the question

PostBy: Berlin On: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:01 pm

I really recommend taking a ride and trying out the coal before you buy. Largest sizes (softball+) are best with lowest coke button and ash % you can get. Call around, get the proximate analysis of the coal and post it here, and ask about storage abilty of coal, they'll tell you. Some subbit coal doesn't store well, it tends to want to turn to powder after a short while, a few subbits have been known to store ok. Lignite lumps tend to burn very well in hand-fired stoves, often with less soot and fine tuning than subbit or bit coal, but the energy density is low, and you're far enough west that it's harder to find. Whatever you do, make sure you have at LEAST an 8" flue and 8" outlet on the appliance. If your house has a basement a prill, stokermatic, or other forced-air underfeed stoker furnace that burns stoker coal is an excellent choice.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal


Re: ok, here's the question

PostBy: fish guide On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:37 am

Thanks for the replies. It looks like the coal will cost around $137 ton delivered (oiled) to just north of Afton Wyoming from Utah. distances are long out here. the closest mine is in Kemmerer and they don't really deal with retail purchasers. a couple of mines in north central Utah are possibilities. It is a 300 mile drive to the mine in Utah that gave me the $137 ton price. Trucking is expensive and only possible if I buy a whole tandem 23tons. There is another one in Rock Springs I am trying to find out about. The Harmon TLC 2000 has a 6" outlet and the one I have been burning anthracite with is connected to a 6" metalbestos insulated chimney system that is two stories high (maybe 28ft total) with a barometric damper in line. With anthracite and wood it has worked perfectly. Not good with bituminus and occasional wood? The house will also be at around 5500 ft elevation. I am surprised that bigger sizes work better. I couldn't get big chunks of anthracite to burn worth a hoot. The Kemmerer coal is rated at 9900 btu and 0.9 sulpher. Is there anyone here that has any experience with coal from this area?
fish guide
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: harmon TLC 2000

Re: ok, here's the question

PostBy: titleist1 On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:27 am

Since the forum is a little light on members out in that area, do you have any contacts out there that might have experience burning the different mines bit coal they could share with you? If you are dealing with a real estate agent there maybe they would know a guy that knows a guy..... If I was out there with 15 ton sitting in storage I'd share a bucket or three for somebody to try out in their stove, maybe/hopefully you could find somebody close to the new homestead with a similar attitude..
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: ok, here's the question

PostBy: fish guide On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:09 am

I have not found anyone in the entire area that burns coal. Seems strange to me but even here in the east I am the only coal burner in my area that I know about. Even the Harmon dealer in Idaho could not help me much. He did however turn me on to a trucker that would haul coal from Utah to northwestern Wyoming. I called the Harmon Stove Company and they also could not help much, but they did suggest this forum, that's why i am here with you guys now. Until now it has been lonely as a coal burner. I forgot to mention in my last post that I have no basement or crawl space. The house is built on a slab and the stove is in the kitchen. It is well insulated and very efficient and i have been using less than 3 tons of anthracite a year to heat it. Blaschak nut coal is what I have been using, so that is my reference. Thanks all for any help.
fish guide
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: harmon TLC 2000

Re: ok, here's the question

PostBy: franco b On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:27 am

This coal is going to be very different from what you are used to. Smoke, soot, and smell. Probably the best hand fired is one of the antiques designed for it. Best advice is to read Berlin's post again. The problem is similar to wood in how to control large amounts of volatiles given off rapidly by a large batch. Large lumps give off gas slower so are more controllable. The cleanest way to burn wood or bit coal is to feed small amounts at a rate that can be controlled. With wood that would be with a pellet stove and with bit coal the proper stoker.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: ok, here's the question

PostBy: titleist1 On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:49 pm

Maybe that trucker would have delivered to someone in the area previously. He might be a source for current bit users in the area.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: ok, here's the question

PostBy: rockwood On: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:32 am

There's good coal in Utah but there are options closer to you.

There's a place in Kemmerer that sells stoker coal 307-828-2246. I don't know pricing and I'm not sure if they sell lump coal or not.

There's also another coal dealer in the Idaho Falls area...can't remember details right now....I will post info about it if I can find it.

If you're moving to the Afton area, coal stoker furnaces are still quite common in that area. If you're patient, you should be able to find one. If natural gas is not available then I would start searching for a stoker furnace like berlin mentioned.

Lump coal is what I would recommend for your stove, as others have mentioned. You can burn stoker coal in your stove...it will take practice but it can be done. It will be a lot different compared to anthracite.
rockwood
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Stokermatic coal furnace
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Rockwood Stoveworks Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: Malleable/Monarch Range
Coal Size/Type: Soft coal: Lump and stoker (slack coal)

Re: ok, here's the question

PostBy: rockwood On: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:50 am

The dealer north of Idaho Falls is SJ Hatton in Ucon Idaho. I don't have a phone number but you should be able to search and find that.

FYI, stoker coal out west is often referred to as 'slack coal' or 'oil slack'...it is usually oil treated.
rockwood
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Stokermatic coal furnace
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Rockwood Stoveworks Circulator
Baseburners & Antiques: Malleable/Monarch Range
Coal Size/Type: Soft coal: Lump and stoker (slack coal)

Re: ok, here's the question

PostBy: fish guide On: Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:02 am

Rockwood, thanks for that lead on coal near Idaho Falls. I called yesterday and it turns out they have bit coal from the mine in Salina Utah. Delivered to my my house is $120 ton. 12000 btu, 7-12% ash .5 sulpher. I guess the description of sizes varies. What they call "pea" coal is around golf ball size and lump coal can be football size. Lump coal for me would take a lot of breaking up to fit into my top loading hatch on my stove. they also have as you said rice or stoker coal but I think that would be too fine for my hand loader.
fish guide
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: harmon TLC 2000

Re: ok, here's the question

PostBy: Berlin On: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:14 am

you really do want lump coal. if a few pieces are as big as footballs, you can pop them with a tap from a maul down the grain; they split right open.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal