Over Heat !!

Re: Over Heat !!

PostBy: jcw265 On: Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:57 pm

If I pull back on the relay at any time should the pump kick on ?? it does not do this but if the aquastat is in certain temps it will for example ( the house is at temp 68 deg ) the stat is set t 160 - 180 ) i was pulling back on the relay to see if the pump would pull it did not , I turned down the low to 120 and pulled on it and it came on ?? I just noticed it heading up to about 180 before i did all this , if the house is at temp and the low is set at 160 with a diff of 10 should it get any higher then 160 ?? now the temp was around 170 when I caught it but perhaps I was a little premature but on another note when it was at that temp and I pulled on the relay it did start the pump and I held it until the temp went back down below 150 which was about 90 seconds or so .

Also the seperate hi switch is set on I think 220 deg but it is wired into my aquastat ?? should that be ?? if the aquastat would fail what allows the other hi kick out switch to run ??? getting confused now for sure

Love in Christ Jesus

Jay Williams
jcw265
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker. KA 6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite

Re: Over Heat !!

PostBy: 1975gt750 On: Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:59 pm

sounds like you 4006b high limit aquastat is not working properly or it is not wired properly turning on the circulator to dump the excess heat off. i also would not set the 4006b aquastat at 250 either i have mine set at 210 right before the boiling point of water. where did you find your plumbler he sounds like a piece of work i hope he did a nice install on the plumbing end because he does not appear to know what he is doing on the electrical end.
1975gt750
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: keystoker kaa-2
Coal Size/Type: rice coal / blaschak
Other Heating: pensotti oil boiler with riello 40 burner
Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: kaa-2

Re: Over Heat !!

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:36 pm

1975gt750 wrote:sounds like you 4006b high limit aquastat is not working properly or it is not wired properly turning on the circulator to dump the excess heat off. i also would not set the 4006b aquastat at 250 either i have mine set at 210 right before the boiling point of water. where did you find your plumbler he sounds like a piece of work i hope he did a nice install on the plumbing end because he does not appear to know what he is doing on the electrical end.



The boiling point of water is 3 degrees higher / 1 pounds pressure so with 15psi it would be 257dergrees . Still I would lower the high to no more than 220 degrees. I also agree double check the wiring ,sounds as if there is a problem in the wiring somewhere. Almost sounds like your circ pump is shtting off at the high aquastat setting .Try lowering the high temp(not the overtemp )when the boiler is close to your 170 setpoint and see if the circ stops . Dave
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer


Re: Over Heat !!

PostBy: liltractornut72 On: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:54 pm

As stated above if stat has a call for heat check c1 and c2 .If you don't have 120 volts there could be bad connection (broken solder)on the circuit board.I've repaired numerous triple aquastats that the solder on a post was cracked(burnt??).
liltractornut72
 

Re: Over Heat !!

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:05 am

jcw265 wrote:If I pull back on the relay at any time should the pump kick on ?? it does not do this but if the aquastat is in certain temps it will for example ( the house is at temp 68 deg ) the stat is set t 160 - 180 ) i was pulling back on the relay to see if the pump would pull it did not , I turned down the low to 120 and pulled on it and it came on ?? I just noticed it heading up to about 180 before i did all this , if the house is at temp and the low is set at 160 with a diff of 10 should it get any higher then 160 ?? now the temp was around 170 when I caught it but perhaps I was a little premature but on another note when it was at that temp and I pulled on the relay it did start the pump and I held it until the temp went back down below 150 which was about 90 seconds or so .

Also the seperate hi switch is set on I think 220 deg but it is wired into my aquastat ?? should that be ?? if the aquastat would fail what allows the other hi kick out switch to run ??? getting confused now for sure

Love in Christ Jesus

Jay Williams


Jay, we just cannot analyze it in detail over the message board. Please get a boiler professional to your home to work on it and explain how it is set up and how it operates. Boiler systems can vary widely. We are peeing in the wind. If I were you, I would revert all controls to factory settings and leave them alone until the boiler pro arrives.
mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M

Re: Over Heat !!

PostBy: e.alleg On: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:50 am

Next time it happens do some tests, if the thermostat is calling for heat the circulator pump should be on. If it isn't check for power at the circulator if you are comfortable working with electricity. That test will narrow down your problem to just a couple of possible faults. You may have just had air in a pipe, an air bubble is like a brick wall. Even with the circulator off I would think that there will be some flow with the boiler at 230 degrees, enough to make the pipes hot to the touch unless you have zone valves. Mine did the same thing one time, the boiler was 220 and the pipes were cold. I shut off a gate valve in the pipe and then opened it just a little bit, the high velocity of the water freed up the air and it was good again. As long as you have a good pressure relief valve and the supply line has a pressure regulator on it there really isn't anything that can happen besides some water on the floor and maybe a panic attack. Put a bucket under the relief valve pipe and see if it fills up. It will start to open at about 30psi, at 35 psi it should be wide open and you'll know it, when the relief valve opens due to overpressure it sounds and looks like the space shuttle taking off :shock:
e.alleg
 
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: 520

Re: Over Heat !!

PostBy: jcw265 On: Fri Jan 25, 2008 10:06 am

Well update for all of you , First the Hi stat on the boiler is working ( I tested it ) how ?? I turned it to the point of it turning on the pump , yet to my suprise it is about 30 - 35 deg differnt then the boiler temp guage. Thus 220 on the Hi stat the boiler temp woud have to be almost 260 that is why when my boiler hit 235 it did not do anything yet, I was talking with gaw last night and he tested his for me ( we have the same boiler ) and his was the same way as well. Problem 1 found and solved . Next on the aquastat I found out i was reading it wrong as far as when i thought the pump was suppose to kick on ( problem 2 solved ) Next I now think with the timer settings I had set which was way to much and I might have caused it to over heat since the house was at temp the pump had no call and even with the stoker down from the hi setting on the aquastat I still had the timer cranking plenty of coal and fire in ! ( problem 3 solved ) I am going to bleed the system this weekend just to make sure there is no air in lines or radiator, And also take a gallon or 2 out of boiler to see if that does not lower my pressure a little due to the fact it tends to hang right around 18-20 psi .

I think also you all have done a great job with helping me with these issues, also there is no plumber but the one I chose that would even attempt the install of the boiler . Plumbing wise I feel he h as done a great job , did it by the book acording to keystoker. I feel the only issues we have has been proper setup and running of the boiler , I kinda lay that at keystokers feet with the very little information provided on this issue. I think they assume that if you purchase one of their boilers you have a active knowledge of them ( which is far from the case with me for sure ) In closing everything is still working fine at the house I have had only that one issue 2 days ago and I hope it was my error in the timer settings , ( note ; I do have the boiler to all factory settings ) except the Hi stat cause it is way off from what the boiler shows . As always thank you all for your help and kindness.

Love in Christ Jesus

Jay Williams
jcw265
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker. KA 6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite

Re: Over Heat !!

PostBy: stoker-man On: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:20 pm

Is Key stoker a dealer network sales company or will they sell direct to the public? Sometimes installation instructions are vague to the consumer because only dealers, with experience, are supposed to install them.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: Over Heat !!

PostBy: stoker-man On: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:23 pm

liltractornut72 wrote:As stated above if stat has a call for heat check c1 and c2 .If you don't have 120 volts there could be bad connection (broken solder)on the circuit board.I've repaired numerous triple aquastats that the solder on a post was cracked(burnt??).


I got an aquastat back for warranty one time with the complaint that there was no power to B1. I could see something going on in the rear of the waferboard panel, so I removed it from the box. The entire backside was black and looked like it exploded. As far as I know, Honeywell honored the warranty. :D
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: Over Heat !!

PostBy: cww On: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:55 pm

I also have the KA-6 and according to the instructions provided with my unit the high and low setting on the aquastat attached to the boiler should be set at minimum of 20 degrees difference (ex. 180 high 160 low). In the spring and fall it occasionally gets over 200 degrees so I have the aquastat in the bypass loop set at 210 degrees which automatically kicks the circulator on for one zone (the wire from the aquastat is hooked to the actual gas backup boiler thermostat conections and energizes the circulator pump as if the house was calling for heat). It did take awhile (several weeks) to find the proper adjustments for the coal feed and timer to get things working smoothly and consistently.
cww
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker/Alaska/Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: KA-6/Kast Console/DVC-500

Re: Over Heat !!

PostBy: jcw265 On: Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:28 am

I bought my stoker from Rural Energy Products out of Van Wert and have no complaints from there service . Keystoker was contacted a few times and they did allright but have had better support. The manual ( actually about 3 pieces of paper ) looks like someone sat down and typed it on Word and emailed it to a printer. Yet even with that if it just would have had more info on it would have helped greatly. However I think it is a great product I am no longer having any issues with it , it was operator error on some. set up error on some other stuff, having no clue what a coal boiler really was and how it works !! Major error. !! This forum should be included on all coal boilers as far as I am concerned , With out all of you I would have been up the creek or coal chute ( lolol) , Will keep you upto date as things move forward !!



Love in Christ Jesus

Jay Williams
jcw265
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker. KA 6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite

Re: Over Heat !!

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Sat Jan 26, 2008 1:19 pm

Glad you got it all straightened around, Jay. I was a bit worried there for a while that your plumber had messed something up or that you were over your head on the operation of the boiler. You did a good job troubleshooting. Only one point I want to make: It's never a mistake to burn anthracite!

Peace be with you and your family.

Mike
mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M

Re: Over Heat !!

PostBy: gaw On: Sat Jan 26, 2008 3:16 pm

Good to hear everything is working OK now. I know Keystoker's paperwork leaves a lot to be desired. They do not waste any money on developing product manuals. I think they are assuming their buyers have a certain amount of anthracite burning experience or the stove dealer will be responsible for educating the consumer. As far as boilers for whole house heating I would guess very few are sold beyond 100 miles of the factory. It would be interesting to know the figures on that.

Stoker-man, I don't know if they sell stoves direct from the factory but I know there dealers will sell you a boiler for you to install yourself.

As far as the Keystoker wiring goes, if they have not changed anything over the years the timer is wired to turn on the stoker as per the timer setting regardless of anything else. The red wire from the timer which becomes hot when the switch is closed by the timer is connected to the B1 terminal of the L8124 triple aquastat. The L4006B high limit aquastat is connected, along with the thermostat, to the thermostat terminals of the L8124 triple aquastat. The stoker gets wired to the B1 & B2 terminals and the circulator gets wired to the C1 & C2 terminals. Keystoker does things the simplest way to get the job done. You may love or hate their simplistic approach to things. I have come to appreciate their simple approach, it generally makes things cheap and easy to work on and doesn't burn up to many brain cell in the process.
gaw
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice from Schuylkill County

Re: Over Heat !!

PostBy: jcw265 On: Sun Jan 27, 2008 2:05 pm

Well I dont know of anyone but lil ole me that has anything like the keystoker in southern Ohio , Second I also found out that when you say antracite in Ohio you get the Big ! WHATS THAT !! ( Lol ) Coal is coal , so I used to think the same way but it sure aint ! :D Now as far as the Jay Update here we go , Everything is working PERFECT !! I think it is all downhill from here, I have great heat 68-70 deg , the aquastat is doing great between 140 and 180 , the coal rate has been greatly reduced as the ash waste as well. TImer is set corect, pressure has been around 15 PSI to 17 PSI , and so on and so on, Coal rate is great , just dont have one single question or problem. I have come to a point where I can say Anthracite coal is the way to go, I think I will write a small book on my quest from start to finish for anyone who trys to get into coal burning business. It is great heat , and almost issue free. but if you never had one or been around one ( LOOK OUT !!! ) hehehehe

Love in Christ Jesus

Jay Williams
jcw265
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker. KA 6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite

Re: Over Heat !!

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:37 pm

Great to hear its finally leveled out . You will love the coal heat . Our house is a nice constant 70 degrees . I would keep it cooler but we have our little one . Dave
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer