Problems with kaa-2 temps.

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: Pacowy On: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:15 pm

You might want to consider getting a small stash of bags of better coal to use when you really need the output, and save the C-K for use the rest of the time.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: farrell2k On: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:20 pm

I am still at a loss as to why this is happening. It's 20 outside here right now, the boiler temp is 180, but the living room is 67*. I hate this. :(
farrell2k
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa2
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA2

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:30 pm

Are you making lots of ash? At least one member has had problems with Casey coal this season. He's burning twice the coal and making twice the ash with Casey versus other coal he tried. Your coal may not have enough BTU's per pound to keep up. Try some bagged Blaschak. It might make a huge difference.
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

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Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: farrell2k On: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:36 pm

I have some nut coal I am going to try throwing on the fire to see what happens.
farrell2k
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa2
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA2

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: kstills On: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:29 pm

Farrell, at 180f, is your circulator running constantly?
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: McGiever On: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:45 pm

farrell2k,

Which zone's return water is the hottest come back?
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: farrell2k On: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:44 pm

Both zones seem to return water at around the same temp, both pretty hot to the touch. The circulators don't seem to be running all the time. I can feel and hear them kick on and off.
farrell2k
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa2
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA2

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:31 pm

Does the nut coal make any difference?
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: farrell2k On: Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:41 pm

Carbon12 wrote:Does the nut coal make any difference?


No. the boiler doesn't have a problem getting up to temp, so I did not expect much. :(
farrell2k
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa2
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA2

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: titleist1 On: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:14 pm

farrell2k wrote:Both zones seem to return water at around the same temp, both pretty hot to the touch.


doesn't seem like the baseboard is giving up the heat to the room. Have the baseboard fins ever been vac'ed out? did you verify you had 100' of baseboard like you thought and is that upstairs and downstairs combined?

Would be good to have actual temps of supply and return.....
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsea ... hermometer
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: dave brode On: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:19 pm

Hello All,

On kstill's issues, I did try to read carefully, but I am unsure if his stoker was running flat out during the problems or not. The radiation and pump flow issues aside, if it was running flat out , and could not keep up, perhaps it needed more air, and maybe more feed? I have read opinions here that say "leave it at the factory setting, they know what they are doing", etc. Bull. Many breakers are passing off barley for rice. It takes more air to burn smaller coal. The grates often leak air around the edges, lost air. A higher feed rate and the req'd add'l air flow to burn it WILL increase the output of the KAA-2. Will you blow more heat up the flue? Yes, but at least you can get all the boiler will give you.

On pins, I agree 100% with Oliver. I am heating 3500 sq ft with a Kaa-2. Although I switch back to my elec tank in single digit weather, I normally make DHW too. I originally pumped the water 24/7 to two fan coil units, cycled the fans as req'd, and the timer and 8124 controlled the stoker. The temp would drop way off after the boiler dropped far enough [160] to make the 8124 bring the stoker on. Following Oliver's lead, I learned that he is right about more timer pins being the answer for the little boiler.

Now, that said, fellows here [mostly steamup and Sting] convinced me that my setup was less than ideal. I installed zone valves on my two "zones": [two fan/coil units]. I wired the end switches back to the TT terminals in the 8124. So, any time either fan/coil unit runs, the zone valve calls to the stoker, and it runs. I make DHW too. I have pre-heaters that heat the well water on the way to the elec tank. I have a opens on rise aquastat on the line from the well, apx 4" from the 1st preheater. It's also wired back to TT, and closes to cause the stoker to run whenever water is drawn. The zone valves were a huge improvment, but I still run a pile of pins. It's been really cold here [below zero at night], and I've been running 3 sets of 6, and 3 sets of 8 [yes, 42 total]. In warmer temps, I'll drop back to as little as three sets of 6.

Dave

p.s. - sorry farrell, this probably doesn't help you.
dave brode
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: KLook On: Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:32 pm

From what I am reading above the circulators are not running even though he is cold. I think your suggestions are helpful as they are some of the same things I did to my boiler. Get it running as soon as possible. And no matter what the pro's say, as you said "Bull", I made mine work by not pumping all the hot water out of the boiler in 2 seconds flat.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: dave brode On: Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:51 pm

KLook wrote:From what I am reading above the circulators are not running even though he is cold. I think your suggestions are helpful as they are some of the same things I did to my boiler. Get it running as soon as possible. And no matter what the pro's say, as you said "Bull", I made mine work by not pumping all the hot water out of the boiler in 2 seconds flat.

Kevin


Hi Kevin,

That was my understanding too. If wired as KS recommends, even if there is a call for heat, the circ pump will not run until the boiler is at the set temp, whatever that is. I still wonder if his was running flat out when is was not making enough heat.

Dave
dave brode
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KAA-2
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: used to have a 5 section Red Square
Coal Size/Type: rice anthracite

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: oliver power On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:11 am

dave brode wrote:
KLook wrote:From what I am reading above the circulators are not running even though he is cold. I think your suggestions are helpful as they are some of the same things I did to my boiler. Get it running as soon as possible. And no matter what the pro's say, as you said "Bull", I made mine work by not pumping all the hot water out of the boiler in 2 seconds flat.

Kevin


Hi Kevin,

That was my understanding too. If wired as KS recommends, even if there is a call for heat, the circ pump will not run until the boiler is at the set temp, whatever that is. I still wonder if his was running flat out when is was not making enough heat.

Dave
No, the stoker wasn't running flat out Dave. That was/is his problem. Apparently, only one of his problems. What's happening is; Thermostat would call for heat. Circulator would kick on, and his boiler temp would drop below triple aquastat LOW setting, shutting off his circulator. His house never gets up to temp before the circulator shuts down. Meanwhile, his house cools while waiting for the boiler to come back up to temp. Once up to temp, circulator kicks on. Temp drops below low limit again, shutting off circulator again. This cycle keeps repeating itself. He needs to add pins in the timer, in order to reduce the lag time on the stoker. His boiler cools before the stoker catches up. Now I see he says his boiler is at 180*, and house is still cool. So, he might have added pins, but now there's a different problem. Seeing he hears water running through the pipes (air), I think that should be his next step. Get the air out. After getting the air out, he could go a step further by adding a mixing valve. If he mixed the return water, with the hot water, he wouldn't cool his boiler so quickly. Yet, with only 900 feet of house, it should easily be heated with the Kaa-2. Myself, I'd be looking at air in the lines next.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: blrman07 On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:44 am

farrell2k wrote:Both zones seem to return water at around the same temp, both pretty hot to the touch. The circulators don't seem to be running all the time. I can feel and hear them kick on and off.
farrell2k wrote:I am still at a loss as to why this is happening. It's 20 outside here right now, the boiler temp is 180, but the living room is 67*. I hate this. :(


Your circ pumps are not running constantly probably because they are wired to run from the low temp aquastat. Boiler water cools down to below the lower setting and the circ pumps shut off until the boiler gets back up to the low temp setting. Try setting the low temp aquastat higher or simply change the wiring so the pumps run off the thermostat not the aquastat. On another boiler I put in a manual switch so they would never shut off unless I wanted them to run in auto.

You can't get that water out to the system unless those circ pumps are running!!!

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pa.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, using a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly stove in the church
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

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