Problems with kaa-2 temps.

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: Sting On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:17 pm

kstills wrote:
Sting wrote:Sounds like a typical over pumping drama -- :D

Do a little searching regarding system balance!


Yeah, but eventually (unless his heat loss exceeded his btuh) he would catch up, right?


it Depends -- probably not until the weather moderates

- so yes - eventually but not due to system performance= due to load decrease
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:20 pm

This weather has been A LOT colder for A LOT longer this winter than the previous 2 winters where his system appeared to work well.
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: kstills On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:32 pm

Sting wrote:
it Depends -- probably not until the weather moderates

- so yes - eventually but not due to system performance= due to load decrease


Cryptic and oddly unsatisfying as an answer (because I keep clicking on those underlined passages, only to find out they aren't hyperlinks).

In my situation, it takes a while for the system to 'balance', IE come up to temp where the water is actually circulating without the low limit being breached. In warmer weather, this never happens. In this extreme cold, the boiler might run 1/2 the night.

Eventually, I'm circulating water above the 160ll. Then the demand is satsified, and the boiler shuts off. And I'm pushing ~75g of water around both zones.

IF my heat loss exceeded my boiler's ability to match it, my boiler would never shut off, however the water temp in the system should eventually hit the ll and stay there (unless the heat loss was massively higher than the btuh of the boiler).

Balancing the system, if I understand it correctly, makes the boiler run full out from the get go, or close enough to make the difference negligible. It does this by restricting flow, reducing the return temp of the water, keeping hotter water in the living areas and forcing the boiler to run more or less continuously.

I'm just not seeing how this helps anymore than the other method if the hl exceeds the btuh output.
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: Sting On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:17 pm

kstills wrote:I'm just not seeing how this helps


You can lead a horse to water - but you cannot make him drink

or

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." –Bill Cosby
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: kstills On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:27 pm

Sting wrote:
kstills wrote:I'm just not seeing how this helps


You can lead a horse to water - but you cannot make him drink

or

"I don't know the key to success, but the key to failure is trying to please everybody." –Bill Cosby


Ooops, talked at length about something besides system balance.
:oops:

However I don't see how a 900 sq foot dwelling can have a system balance issue great enough to overcome the boiler's capacity to make enough hot water to eventually heat the house.
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:40 pm

How about a bypass loop w/ throtle valve to temper the cold water returning to the boiler. You dont by chance have 4or 5 big iron radiators on one zone do you? just thinkin on line :D
waldo lemieux
 
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
Stove/Furnace Model: s-20

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: Sting On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:42 pm

kstills wrote:Balancing the system, if I understand it correctly, makes the boiler run full out from the get go, or close enough to make the difference negligible. It does this by restricting flow, reducing the return temp of the water, keeping hotter water in the living areas and forcing the boiler to run more or less continuously.


Where on earth did you draw this conclusion from
Image
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: tsb On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:42 pm

My home built boiler is no bigger than a Kaa-2 and it runs
balls to the walls in this weather. The T-stats run the circulator
and the aquastat runs the stoker. The stoker runs flat out almost all
the time and the water never gets below 150-160. The house is
about 4000 sq feet. 2000 gets heated to 72-73 and the rest is what
ever it is. The basement is ground floor and also 2000 sq feet, but is
still 50 degrees. Maybe just shitty coal.
tsb
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: farrell2k On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:45 pm

waldo lemieux wrote:How about a bypass loop w/ throtle valve to temper the cold water returning to the boiler. You dont by chance have 4or 5 big iron radiators on one zone do you? just thinkin on line :D


It's hot water baseboard. I think 100 ft of it. It's such a small house, which is what is so weird about this.

So my boiler has no problem getting up to temperature. I have it set to 170/190/15 diff and the bioler temp is now close to 180, but I just can't get the house warmer than 68* :(
farrell2k
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa2
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA2

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: kstills On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:57 pm

farrell2k wrote:
waldo lemieux wrote:How about a bypass loop w/ throtle valve to temper the cold water returning to the boiler. You dont by chance have 4or 5 big iron radiators on one zone do you? just thinkin on line :D


It's hot water baseboard. I think 100 ft of it. It's such a small house, which is what is so weird about this.

So my boiler has no problem getting up to temperature. I have it set to 170/190/15 diff and the bioler temp is now close to 180, but I just can't get the house warmer than 68* :(



Ding!

This may be the problem....

Now, does the boiler ever shut off?

At 180f, 100ft gives ~61k btuh at 4gpm...

No insulation, any idea what your heat loss is at these temps?
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: Sting On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:05 pm

farrell2k wrote:
waldo lemieux wrote:How about a bypass loop w/ throtle valve to temper the cold water returning to the boiler. You dont by chance have 4or 5 big iron radiators on one zone do you? just thinkin on line :D


It's hot water baseboard. I think 100 ft of it. It's such a small house, which is what is so weird about this.

So my boiler has no problem getting up to temperature. I have it set to 170/190/15 diff and the bioler temp is now close to 180, but I just can't get the house warmer than 68* :(


What temperature is the return pipe near the boiler?

What temperature is the supply pipe ?? Hey Folks maybe this appliance already does have a bypass -- can we see any pictures?
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:08 pm

I'm just glad my suggestion has seemingly improved the situation a bit. Let's bring all home boy! Take the temps and post the photos! :D
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: kstills On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:11 pm

Kaa2 output is ~76k net, which is right about near his current radiation.
kstills
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: WL 110
Stove/Furnace Make: Leisure Line

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: KLook On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:38 pm

I suspect poor flow. Either air bound or circulator problem. Maybe a valve got turned accidentally. That is why the output and return temps would be nice to know.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: farrell2k On: Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:10 pm

I have no way to measure any temps right now, but the water leaving the circulator is damned hot to the point where I can only touch the pipe for a few seconds.

There is a bypass loop, at least that's what I was told. Please ignore the mess. I didn't have the motivation to clean anything but the essentials on the boiler this season.

I used to have two zones set up on the old oil boiler, but now I only have one that controls both circulators. I was experimenting before and disconnected the circulator that pumps upatairs. I was able to get the downstairs to 70 when I did this. I am now thinking that too much water is leaving the boiler to satisfy the thermostat. Does that make any sense?

20140124_164727.jpg
(123.5 KiB) Viewed 21 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]48419[/nepathumb]

20140124_164814.jpg
(98.34 KiB) Viewed 22 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]48420[/nepathumb]

20140124_164800.jpg
(130.1 KiB) Viewed 22 times
View: New PagePopup • Select:BBCode
[nepathumb]48421[/nepathumb]
farrell2k
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa2
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA2

Visit Lehigh Anthracite