Problems with kaa-2 temps.

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: KLook On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:06 pm

I am more than happy to pay someone to take a look at this for me. Money is not an issue. I have tried calling a few guys in the area and the ones who have got back to me refuse to look at coal. :)


This is the winner, someone PM him and go take a look. Stop the guesswork.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: Pacowy On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:16 pm

KLook wrote:Oliver and I are not asking to keep the pumps running constantly. We only want the pump running when the water is HOT. And by that we mean HOT, not 140 not 150 not 160. I don't care what Keystoker says about their recommended temp, we are outside of their recommended heat load.
Mike, btu's are btu's are btu's. But EFFECTIVE and USABLE btu's are only found in the high end of the temp scale. When you circulate hotter water, more btu's make it back to the boiler giving it a better chance to reheat to usable btu's again. If you just warm it up, spank it on the ass and send it back out, you will get cooler water the second time around and on and on. Until the boiler and the load become stabilized and you are cold because the water is at 140. You must only put out the amount of water that you can reheat to a high enough temp to keep up. This varies according to FLOW and return temp(load).

Kevin


Understood. Sting may want to correct me on this, but I think you're restating in different words my point that the boiler must be able to put into the boiler water no less than the amount of btu's that the attached radiation distributes - at whatever temp and gpm the boiler water gets circulated - plus any DHW load. If that condition is true, I would submit that you don't need to worry about starting at a high temp because the system will have enough power to get there before long. Alternatively, if that condition is not true, it won't help much to start at a high temp because the system will tend to stall out on the load. I do see how a high starting temp could buy a little time (at the expense of idling efficiency) , but it doesn't seem like it would change the eventual outcome.

And asking Matt to take a look sounds like a fine idea.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: farrell2k On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:27 pm

OK, so here is a pic of my aquastat and my fire with the boiler currently at 140*. I currently have the aquastat set to 160L/180H/15Diff. When the boiler gets up to temp the circulators run, the boiler temp drops to around 140* and the pumps stop until it gets back up to temp.

The aquastat came pre-wired from keystone. The only thing I did was connect the circulator to C1 and C2.

old temps at 140/160/10 diff.
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I scraped the inside of the boiler last week, too! :(
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farrell2k
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa2
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA2

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:29 pm

Oh boy - Just shoot me now
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: KLook On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:30 pm

I wont comment about the electrics but if that is a burn after a full call for heat, it is not putting out the amount of fire it should. That should be all the way to the end(almost).

Kevin

Just saw Stings.....this must be good.
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: farrell2k On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 4:37 pm

KLook wrote:I wont comment about the electrics but if that is a burn after a full call for heat, it is not putting out the amount of fire it should. That should be all the way to the end(almost).

Kevin

Just saw Stings.....this must be good.


If I turn up the coal feed, I push hot coal off the grate. This was the first thing I tried.
farrell2k
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa2
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA2

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: blrman07 On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:02 pm

When you try to diagnose a problem you first have to get the system to a steady state. In this case shut off all the circulating pumps and get the boiler up to operating temperature. Then once it cycles a couple of times start a circ pump and make it run continuously. See what the boiler does and how long it takes it to get steady again. Start the remaining pumps/zones and do the same thing.

The boiler water temp and the operation of the system are two completely different events. You have to treat them like two completely different events. Get the boiler water to a steady state and then get the system to a steady state.

I have owned, operated, repaired and trouble shot hydronic and steam heating systems for over 35 years now. I know about which I am speaking but that along with some change anymore and you might be able to get a cup of coffee out of a machine.

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland, Pa.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: installing a VC 2310 this summer
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: KLook On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:38 pm

He has already stated that the boiler will come up to temp. That indicates to many that it is air bound. However, I am not good at troubleshooting electrical hookups with pic. I was always able to wire mine by directions. The circulator seems to be working intermittently and that may be the(a) problem.
My comment on your fire height was only based on the pic you showed. It must be adjusted after a long burn and you seem to have a handle on this. I don't know how high the flames are but in my harman, the flames will reach up over a foot or more. Either your air is not adjusted right, there are fines blocking the grates, or the holes in the grate are plugged with crud? This does not address the issue of it coming up to temp and not putting that heat into your house. Lets go back to calling Matt as advised, good man and experienced. It is to cold to put up with this crap for long.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: farrell2k On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:12 pm

You hit the nail on the head with the air, Kevin. I called a buddy of mine whose old man was a plumber. He came over and in two minutes figured out the problem. Everything is weird and working correctly, but he did open the cover on the blower fan all the way. It was set to half open from the factory, and me being an idiot about all of this had no idea it could be adjusted. The fire went nuts and the house got up to 72 pretty quickly. I fell really stupid :(
farrell2k
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa2
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA2

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:21 pm

:oops: no need to stay that way,try this :junmp: :clap: toothy you should be very happy,i am very happy for you & i'm not even there :D still think your flue pipe needs help..steady incline to thimble,no sag between.
windyhill4.2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Other Heating: Oaktree OWB 600K

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: KLook On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:27 pm

Very happy to hear it my friend. Despite all the back and forth, this forum is all about helping people out and I seldom can as I am not a heat mechanic. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes! I still think there are ways your boiler can be even more satisfactory and I would encourage you to correspond with oliver power when you can. Might save some money in the process.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:28 pm

Excellent! Another satisfied customer! Hot damn! :D
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: KLook On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:29 pm

AND if it was working fine before, I would bet there is something blocking previous air setting. I think you are due for a tune up of the system that allows air into the grates. ;)

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: titleist1 On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:32 pm

somewhere buried in these 12 pages you did mention that you have working co monitors, correct?!
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Problems with kaa-2 temps.

PostBy: farrell2k On: Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:45 pm

I have a co2 detector about twenty feet from the boiler in my kitchen. The uni boiler is not in my basement. It it's technically under my bathroom and I need to go outside to access it.

I have wondered whether I am sending too much heat up the chimney. I have one of those barometric dampers, but God knows if it is set correctly. The stack pipe coming out of the boiler gets pretty hot, but the section after the barometric damper is always cool to the touch. I wonder though because I tend to go through a ton of coal every six weeks on average, sometimes a month if it really cold. I don't know if that is because i have no insulation, whether it is Casey coal, or both.
I used to pay almost $400/month with oil at much lower temps, so I am happy with coal anyway :-)

Kevin,I did clean and oil the fan and unclogged and my grates.
Last edited by farrell2k on Wed Jan 29, 2014 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
farrell2k
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Kaa2
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA2

Visit Lehigh Anthracite