Upgrading to Harman Mk1

Upgrading to Harman Mk1

PostBy: treysgt On: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:50 pm

Hello-
Just joined this forum - looks like I could have saved myself a ton of trial and error if I had found this earlier. Great info here.. This fall I installed a small old potbelly which I started using to burn small logs (10-12 inch). It burned them even faster than I had feared and was more trouble than it was worth. A friend said I could burn coal in it and gave it a try. Not an easy thing to get going but I use it every day. If it would stay lit all night I would be keeping it, but it is just too tiny.
So I just ordered a Harman Mark 1. If I can get a 12 hour fire out of it that will be perfect - from the posts I'm reading that should be no problem.
Do most folks install their own stoves here? I hooked in my potbelly with no trouble and plan to do the same with the Harman. The dealer is telling me I need a baro damper, but I would prefer to use a manual damper as I have now. I'm kind of confused as I called Hitzer (almost went with them but a tad too big and too $$$) and they suggest a manual damper. Just curious if there are other Harman Mark-series owners who use manual vs baro damper?
Thanks
treysgt
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark1

Re: Upgrading to Harman Mk1

PostBy: WNY On: Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:40 pm

In this forum at the top is a good topic on the Hand dampers...
Manual pipe dampers .. how, why, when

Also, a Baro Damper will limit the draft out of the stove as not to pull all the heat up the chimney.

I think you will see, most of us install our own stokers/hand fed stoves, unless a boiler type system where you may need a plumber.
WNY
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Keystoker 90K, Leisure Line Hyfire I
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker, LL & CoalTrol
Stove/Furnace Model: 90K, Hyfire I, VF3000 Soon

Re: Upgrading to Harman Mk1

PostBy: LsFarm On: Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:11 pm

The Harman instruction manual specificly prohibits the use of a manual damper. Depending on your chimney, and the leaks/tightness of your house etc. You may not need a baro. BUT it is a good automatic device to evenout the draft, and therefore evening out the burn rate of the coal. A Baro will control the draft from weather changes, [temp and wind] that greatly effect draft and the draft effects your burn rate and longevity of your fire.

Read the above menitioned thread, lots of info there..

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

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Re: Upgrading to Harman Mk1

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:14 pm

Go with the Mark I, it's a very good stove. I would recommend a baro damper as well. You don't really know if you need one until the stove is up and running and you can measure the draft, but I would say it's easier to set it up with the baro then have to repipe and install it later, as I did. Without knowing the details on your chimney it's impossible to even guess if you need the damper.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Upgrading to Harman Mk1

PostBy: treysgt On: Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:36 pm

I read through that thread (that looong thread..) and am leaning more toward the baro but still confused. Functionally, I do not see a big difference between the Hitzer 254 and the Harman Mk1. However Hitzer says specifically I should use an MPD and Harman (I suppose) says you must NOT use an MPD. I guess that's why there is such a massive debate on the topic!
Thanks for the comments.
treysgt
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark1

Re: Upgrading to Harman Mk1

PostBy: coalstoves On: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:00 pm

I hate to post on this subject because it is so hotly debated and I am of the less popular mind set . So heres my take do with it as you may .

The Baro for a new user or any user is a fantastic way to prevent over firing a stove it is also a great device to raise efficiency . YES use one but calibrate it with a manometer or you are wasting time and money .

On the subject of the manual damper I would never operate a coal fired appliance without a MPD the two go hand in hand. I'm of the old school and feel you will never get the full benefit of a handfired stove without it I have posted an explanation of my thinking and some reference to secondary combustion elsewhere on the forum try that new Google option to find it, I would but the whole thought of getting back into the debate makes me dizzy .

Place the manual damper about a foot above the stove and the baro ABOVE it as recommended, worse case scenario you never use the MPD and the baro works as expected no harm done . But should you start to tinker with setting the MPD I think you will be quite tickled at how much the Anthracite likes the long slow draw .
coalstoves
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman and Liberty
Stove/Furnace Model: Magnum and Victory 700

Re: Upgrading to Harman Mk1

PostBy: Wood'nCoal On: Fri Jan 25, 2008 8:18 pm

As previously mentioned, the manual damper vs. barometric damper is a "hotly" debated topic here. What it boils down to is some members prefer the manual and some prefer the baro, each has perfectly valid reasons why. Without listing the pro's and con's of each the best I can advise is try both and make your decision.
I will indicate, as Ls Farm has said, that Harman forbids the use of a manual damper on it's stoves.
Wood'nCoal
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1959 EFM 350
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Magnafire Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Fisher Fireplace Insert

Re: Upgrading to Harman Mk1

PostBy: hamiltow On: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:30 pm

Hi,

I was around earlier asking millions of questions. Mostly about what stove to get. I took the advice which was to buy used, so if it isn't the right stove for me, no huge loss. Sell it and try again. I just purchased a MARK II, which I will not be able to fire until this fall since the chmney will not be finished until May due to inclimate weather.

Anyway, I too noticed that Harman forbids the use of the MPD. Now keep in mind that I am an old wood burner and new to coal, but I feel the wood stoves burn most efficiently when dampered down, but given plenty of air. Is it conceivable that Harman is sort of just Covering their Rears buy forbidding the MPD. Hitzer is a respected manufacturer, correct? They say to use them. Harman says no. I wonder if Liability concerns are the reason Harman says NO. This way if somebody CO's themselves to death and they have a Harman with MPD, Harman can say "Well it says right in our manual not to ever install an MPD".

Sorry if this rekindles the hot debate (forgive puns)

Be SAFE.
hamiltow
 
Stove/Furnace Make: TBD
Stove/Furnace Model: TBD

Re: Upgrading to Harman Mk1

PostBy: Dallas On: Tue Feb 12, 2008 7:57 pm

It's any body's guess. I know of one dealer, who said, "they would never install a baro damper, if they didn't have to, due to the warranty limitations and would install the MPD".

My Russo manual said to use a baro damper or the warranty would be void. I'm guessing, so the stove could NOT be over fired. Although, it didn't say not to use a MPD in addition.

You probably know my thoughts.
Dallas
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Modified Russo C-35
Other Heating: Oil Hot Air
Stove/Furnace Make: Russo
Stove/Furnace Model: Modified C-35

Re: Upgrading to Harman Mk1

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Feb 12, 2008 8:20 pm

If you're at all handy, you can install the stove yourself. Dealer installed mine and did a really sh*tty job, and I had to do it over. For what it's worth, the dealer installed both a MPD and a baro on my Harman Mk I. He put in the cheepo baro that was so flimsy I didn't dare use it. Don't make that mistake -- get the Field RC baro that everyone recommends. When I replaced the cheep baro I removed the MPD based on the "command" in the Harman manual. As far as I could tell, the manual one was good for damping down the draft when it was excessive, but the baro does the same thing better, adjusts automatically in real-time instead of me making constant MPD adjustments when the wind came up or went down or the chimney was hotter or cooler.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Upgrading to Harman Mk1

PostBy: hamiltow On: Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:53 pm

I am building an inside chimney, so I'm anticipating quite a bit of draft. I know my dad has an inside chimney and the draft is so much that he had to run with the ash door vent closed all the way, and it still ran pretty hot. He put in an MPD (wood stove)

In a high draft situation, is it conceivable that one could use the MPD to reduce the draft, so the baro wouldn't have to be open so much all the time; if one was concerned of dumping hot room air up the chimney?

Also, what do you guys use to connect the mano to the pipe. Do they come with a metal tube of some kind or do you improvise?
hamiltow
 
Stove/Furnace Make: TBD
Stove/Furnace Model: TBD

Re: Upgrading to Harman Mk1

PostBy: hamiltow On: Wed Feb 13, 2008 5:11 pm

One more thing. My used Mark II came with a Field baro model 34B that the PO threw in. I plan on trying it out. I'm thinking of buying a used Mano because I think I might like having it around for monitoring things for the fun of it, instead of borrowing one for a one time setup.
hamiltow
 
Stove/Furnace Make: TBD
Stove/Furnace Model: TBD

Re: Upgrading to Harman Mk1

PostBy: LsFarm On: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:17 pm

A full time Manometer is a good idea, you will learn a lot about your chimney, the MPD and the effects of the adjustments with a barometric damper.

A manual pipe damper will slow down the rate of flow up the chimney, if you have a strong draft, and have the air inlet vent in the stove mostly closed because of a strong draft, closing a MPD will do very little to reduce the draft. A barometric damper will reduce the actual draft, but not reduce the airflow through the pipe and chimney. Some chimney and stove combinations will benefit from a MPD, but I recommend a barometric damper first, with a Manometer hooked up, then if there still is way too much airflow through the stove, a MPD can be the answer, but only with careful use of a Manometer and CO detectors...

Basicly, a barometric damper is for any chimney, a MPD can be a help with an extreem draft and airflow problem. This is my take on the use of the two types of dampers..

Greg L.
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Visit Hitzer Stoves