are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

Re: are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

PostBy: gerry_g On: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:26 pm

ShawninNY wrote:I especially like the terms of use portion where it's says they are not responsible for the accuracy of any information on there website! That's scientific (American Coal Ash Association AND/OR ITS SUPPLIERS MAKE NO REPRESENTATIONS ABOUT THE SUITABILITY, RELIABILITY, AVAILABILITY, TIMELINESS, AND ACCURACY OF THE INFORMATION, SOFTWARE, PRODUCTS, SERVICES AND RELATED GRAPHICS CONTAINED ON THE American Coal Ash Association )


RE: http://www.coalashfacts.org/

You missed:

ADVICE RECEIVED VIA THE American Coal Ash Association WEB SITE SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON FOR PERSONAL, MEDICAL, LEGAL OR FINANCIAL DECISIONS AND YOU SHOULD CONSULT AN APPROPRIATE PROFESSIONAL FOR SPECIFIC ADVICE TAILORED TO YOUR SITUATION.

One can go to the other radical extreme:

http://quitcoal.org/coal-ash

Which has a similar statement:

"From time to time there may be information on QuitCoal.org that contains typographical errors or inaccuracies"

Hey they are on the internet so they both must be true ;)
Last edited by gerry_g on Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

PostBy: Pacowy On: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:41 pm

gerry_g wrote:
Pacowy wrote:Again, the SA article spreads inflammatory comments without making any mention of how this supposed problem relates to background exposures we face every day.


SA is one of the least inflammatory publication I'm aware of. It presents reviewed data and assumes one has the brains to interpret it.

Such can lead to honest disagreements and rational discussion.

I think you missed "...Tennessee contained high levels of arsenic..." Nothing to do with radiation.


Well, I interpreted the article as being misleading, and explained why, and your only response is a generality about the publication, and not the article.

I didn't "miss" Tennessee. Everything I've seen about it points to the same pattern: breathless alarmism over the presence of a harmful substance accompanied by no frame of reference regarding observed concentrations and their relationship to background conditions or accepted harm thresholds. And when outside experts put the alarmist findings in context, the supposed crisis does not threaten the public health. And P.S. - they don't burn PA anthracite at Kingston.

I'm not advising people that there is an affirmative reason to put anthracite ash in the garden, but I don't see how it's helpful for agenda-driven misinformation to be passed off as fact on the forum.

Mike
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Re: are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

PostBy: Pacowy On: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:54 pm

ShawninNY wrote:They started it lee!


If I could be allowed to point out the obvious, you were the guy who first posted the broad (and IMO false) proposition that heavy metals in coal ash should keep them out of the garden. I think that means you started it, unless you're taking the position that people who don't subscribe to your views have an obligation to acquiesce in them. Sorry, not me.

Mike
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Re: are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

PostBy: gerry_g On: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:58 pm

coaledsweat wrote:
gerry_g wrote:I did mention there were different sources of activated carbon. Activated carbon is no longer anthracite, what you reference is heat treated and chemical quality tested based derived from anthracite.

Quality checks make a big difference IMHO.

You mentioned several sources and made it abudantly clear anthracite was not one of them.


Don't change my words! I stated "That isn't coal in fish tank filters, it is activated carbon usually carefully made from selected charcoal (coconut shells are a common base). It can be made from other carbon sources but the purity of the carbon is tested to a high standard. "

That by no way eliminates ANY carbon source.
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Re: are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

PostBy: ShawninNY On: Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:26 pm

I was referring to the link from the coal ash trade group! Your right mike I think you should continue putting all the ash in your veges! I'll continue to use them in my driveway! I responded to the original poster what (IMO) everything I can find on coal ash states there are elevated levels of metals in ash and not any that dispute that !
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Re: are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:21 pm

Is anyone familiar with the concept of mental masturbation? For myself, I use a hand held grass seeder & spread around 2 gallons of coal ash on my garden before tilling it up. My garden is around 25X30--I've had a good crop for the past 6 yrs. Probably better then before putting a mild ash mix in it. No adverse effects. Coal comes from our Mother Earth, hence to be returned to same in moderation. For the record--if we look hard enough, we tend to find one link/study that agrees with our preconceived notions.
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Re: are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:27 am

ShawninNY wrote:I was referring to the link from the coal ash trade group! Your right mike I think you should continue putting all the ash in your veges! I'll continue to use them in my driveway! I responded to the original poster what (IMO) everything I can find on coal ash states there are elevated levels of metals in ash and not any that dispute that !


You'll need to show me where I said I put coal ash in my vegetable garden. I use it as a traction agent and as an ingredient in a custom concrete driveway patch mix. I used to use it as driveway filler, but now have a paved driveway. I already said I don't have a basis for asserting people should go out of their way to use it in vegetable gardens.

No doubt there are plenty of people yapping about the presence of metals in coal ash. They seem to hope if it is repeated often enough it will become something that everybody just "knows". And like the Wizard of Oz, they don't want you to see how they create the image they project. If you look closely, their studies generally only document the unremarkable and undisputed proposition that harmful materials are present in coal ash. They systematically fall short of establishing that those harmful materials are present in concentrations above background levels that would form a potential threat to human health.

Mike
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Re: are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

PostBy: gerry_g On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:31 am

freetown fred wrote:For myself, I use a hand held grass seeder & spread around 2 gallons of coal ash on my garden before tilling it up. My garden is around 25X30--I've had a good crop for the past 6 yrs. Probably better then before putting a mild ash mix in it. No adverse effects. Coal comes from our Mother Earth, hence to be returned to same in moderation. For the record--if we look hard enough, we tend to find one link/study that agrees with our preconceived notions.


One positive thing you have introduced is explicit fairly careful moderation. If you also know where your anthracite came from, that adds a level of comfort.

I never know where my anthracite came from, PA yes but the quality (composition) of anthracite varies dramatically, even in PA as one moves west.

By far, the most publicized concerns over coal refer to bituminous coal.

These are both anthracite coal (not from NE PA)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ibbenbueren_Anthracite.JPG (Germany and visually resembles NE PA coal)

and the VERY different

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anthracite_coal_%28Photo_by_John_Mortimore%29.jpg from Michigan

I previously stated I once received a lot (only marked as from PA) that was very different than I normally get. Thus I can't trust what I will receive.

The only statement you made in this post I take issue with is "Coal comes from our Mother Earth, hence to be returned to same in moderation." That doesn't make sense, physically and chemically bonded coal came from the earth, you are returning free ash, not coal. Yes, most indigenous soil has both, but does one intentionally wish to increase the level? Levels stated in anthracite don't state the levels in the remaining ash. Safe levels stated in previous posts refer to safety just by soil contact. They state nothing about inhalation or ingestion of produce. I know inhalation of fly ash really irritates my lungs thus wear a dust mask when using it. Also, ash is acidic which increases plant absorption of metals and minerals.

If my supply had a stated amount of impurities, I might feel differently.
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Re: are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

PostBy: ntp71 On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:44 am

Apparently this topic has been covered before.

http://nepacrossroads.com/about553.html


Last winter I found a pdf online concerning the use of coal ash in the garden. I believe it was from a study done at Penn State. I did a quick search and could not find it. During the winter of 2012/2013 I was dumping my ash in my garden then mixed it with some fresh compost once spring arrived. My plants were very healthy last summer. Towards the end of the winter I noticed my neighbor putting his ashes out with the garbage...lol...I had no idea the City collected ashes. So this year I just put my ashes out with the garbage.


Neal
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Re: are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

PostBy: nortcan On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:14 am

Just a note about coal burning pollution.
All mining sites are producing some pollution, but some products seem to be ignored. Take the clean electric/hybrid vehicules for an example.
Mining lithium( for the battery) is also making pollution but you look very smart and environmentally clean if you get those vehicules.
Now make some searches about pollution from lithium mines in the North of Québec like in Abitibi area.
Looks about like the ""terrible"" coal mines :o
Men pollute everywhere they can, next place Mars planet
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Re: are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

PostBy: gerry_g On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:27 pm

ntp71 wrote:. During the winter of 2012/2013 I was dumping my ash in my garden then mixed it with some fresh compost once spring arrived. My plants were very healthy last summer


There is almost no dispute that plants may likely be "healthy" if acidity is controlled. Plants being healthy (productive) by no means corresponds (either way) to the produce being healthy for human consumption.

The ashes from some coal may be fine, ashes from some other coal (even in PA since there are dissimilar deposits in different regions) may or may not be "fine".

We all make our own decisions, that's OK. But any implication that variable coal ash is always good for produce is quite rash.
Last edited by gerry_g on Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:32 pm

Lime will irritate your lungs too,yet it improves the soil,talcum powder & perfumes will irritate my lungs too,some perfumes will affect me that fiercely that i need to get away from the area or person wearing it. Here's the deal,for the worried folks,throw ashes in the garbage so they can be concentrated in one spot,all the sensible folks can use ash in moderate amounts on their lawn & garden.Problem solved,quit regurgitating .
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Re: are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

PostBy: gerry_g On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:37 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:Here's the deal,for the worried folks,throw ashes in the garbage so they can be concentrated in one spot,all the sensible folks can use ash in moderate amounts on their lawn & garden.Problem solved,quit regurgitating .


You are free to regurgitate your opinion as you do.
Last edited by gerry_g on Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

PostBy: ntp71 On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:45 pm

Why can't we all just get along?...lol
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Re: are coal ashes ok to spread on lawn or in vegetable garden?

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:49 pm

Even if I had a vegetable garden and even if I did dump ash there, I make so much ash over the season that I'd have to dump the vast majority of it somewhere else.
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