omg now what am i going to do?

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: GaryFerg On: Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:42 pm

McGiever wrote:Is the oil boiler in the shed w/ the coal boiler?
If not, why do you need 1.5" pipe?

Piping_chart.JPG

Looks like I can use 1 1/4 pipe according to this chart you sent me. I do get about 20 degree difference from what the oil boiler reads to what I get outside. yet the temp at the end of the pex leading into the house is the same temp. I guess the lag and mixing with the cooler inside temperatures is cooling the water. I think the bigger pipe would help them equalize better.
GaryFerg
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Energy King boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon TLC 2000
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: oil

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: CoalisCoolxWarm On: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:09 pm

1.25" is probably plenty and may save $$.

If I understand correctly, you are going to be extending your primary loop to the shed for the stoker, with your oil boiler remaining in the basement as a backup/fail over?

As an aside, you may wish to pipe in a bypass in the basement to isolate the inside from the outside (interconnecting pipe between out/in for stoker, with 3 valves. 2 on the outside edge of the tee and on in the crosspipe). This will allow you to have heat even if you have outdoor problems, run out of coal, go away for a while, etc.

Between 1.5" and 1.25" I go by price and existing work. Once you hit 1.25", the BTUs are usually fine and higher velocities aren't as much of an issue if needed, and even higher temps if you need to boost output aren't really a big deal as the heat loss is usually manageable.

In copper, there was a significant difference between 1.25" and 1.5" when I last made that choice a few years back. Reminds me...I still have a couple of 20' copper 1.5" new pipe sections I never used...hmmm....
CoalisCoolxWarm
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous
Coal Size/Type: Kittanning Seam, Stove size
Stove/Furnace Make: old handfired bituminous

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: GaryFerg On: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:21 pm

The way you describe of hooking up with the tee would be parallel? I presently use the oil fired for hot water using its coil. If I get a keystoker I will use its coil directly. Not sure how I will hook that up yet. Think I am in series s? now, one boiler runs into the other via circulator.
GaryFerg
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Energy King boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon TLC 2000
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: oil

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Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: GaryFerg On: Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:03 pm

whistlenut wrote:Somehow you MUST have a dump zone. No matter what you think happened, the temps went above 250 degrees. Most pex will withstand 220 in short time events, but something went crazy here. If it is a hand fed, then nothing is off limits. You have to create some means of dumping the excess heat, and resulting pressure. I'd look at your PRV and pressure reducer to the boiler as well.
Time frame? Water chemistry? History? There is more to this than a simple 'I Dunno'. :idea: :shock:



I want to hook all the house zones as a dump zone. If I connect they all to a relay (strap on aquastat) won't one then activate all the other when calling for heat? somehow i need to isolate each zone. Make sense? Maybe diodes on each?
GaryFerg
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Energy King boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon TLC 2000
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: oil

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: CoalisCoolxWarm On: Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:57 pm

GaryFerg wrote:The way you describe of hooking up with the tee would be parallel? I presently use the oil fired for hot water using its coil. If I get a keystoker I will use its coil directly. Not sure how I will hook that up yet. Think I am in series s? now, one boiler runs into the other via circulator.


Maybe I can say this better ;)

Assuming you have two parallel lines going from inside to outside, one of the lines as the primary loop going out to the outside furnace and one coming back...

Just before they go out, insert a tee in each line. Assuming 1.25" pipe, your tees would be 1.25x1.25x1.25

Insert these directly across from and facing each other. Insert a section of 1.25" pipe connecting the tees with a valve in the middle.

Now, if your lines are running from left to right, with the inside being left and outside being right...

Just to the right of the tees (even connected to the tees is ok) are a valve in each line.

Picture the vertical lines and such akigned. The forum appears to strip leading spaces when posted

----------+/------------------------
Inside || Outside
Inside /
Inside ||
----------+/----------------------

+ is tee, / is valve, || is vertical run of pipe (don't knock the high tech diagram, it's android and I just smashed two fingers, maybe broke a knuckle :) )

The idea is close the middle valve in the connecting pipe and leave the other two open for normal series operation. Close the top and bottom valves of the primary loop and open the middle cross-connect valve to allow the oil boiler inside to run and be isolated from the outside.

Aparallel installation as we discussed earlier would be pretty tough unless you changed the inside oil boiler to be parallel. IMHO, the outdoor coal furnace will likely be the one more likely to be taken offline, no matter how reliable and well installed. Personally, with the situation you are describing, a series install, where both boilers are in the primary loop, is what I would do.

Hope this helps. I am going to put the bag of frozen mixed vegetables back on my fingers now
CoalisCoolxWarm
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous
Coal Size/Type: Kittanning Seam, Stove size
Stove/Furnace Make: old handfired bituminous

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: GaryFerg On: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:07 pm

a plumber I know from work said I should run the two boilers return to return supply to supply instead of the current way I have it supply to return return to supply. which way is best? I use circulators instead of zone valves won't supply to supply pull all the water through the zones unregulated?
GaryFerg
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Energy King boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon TLC 2000
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: oil

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: CoalisCoolxWarm On: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:53 pm

GaryFerg wrote:a plumber I know from work said I should run the two boilers return to return supply to supply instead of the current way I have it supply to return return to supply. which way is best? I use circulators instead of zone valves won't supply to supply pull all the water through the zones unregulated?


Can you have him draw a diagram? What I am picturing you saying is running primary return into a tee and then one leg of each tee to a boiler and the same on the supply side.

Can be done, but how do you control the flow and balance? Check valves on the supply side? Or check valves in the pumps?
CoalisCoolxWarm
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous
Coal Size/Type: Kittanning Seam, Stove size
Stove/Furnace Make: old handfired bituminous

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: GaryFerg On: Wed Mar 05, 2014 1:34 pm

I will ask him when I see him but if the pump that circulates between the two boilers is on the return side would it be an issue? there would be the whole other boiler to act as a buffer zone?
GaryFerg
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Energy King boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon TLC 2000
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: oil

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: CoalisCoolxWarm On: Fri Mar 07, 2014 11:24 am

GaryFerg wrote:I will ask him when I see him but if the pump that circulates between the two boilers is on the return side would it be an issue? there would be the whole other boiler to act as a buffer zone?


Without check valves or integrated check valves, most likely yes. As water from the active boiler flows past the supply tee, it will create a low pressure that can pull water through the inactive boiler, mixing cold water with newly heated supply water.
CoalisCoolxWarm
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: old Sears rebuilt, bituminous
Coal Size/Type: Kittanning Seam, Stove size
Stove/Furnace Make: old handfired bituminous

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: GaryFerg On: Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:52 am

thing is for now I want to heat both boilers. I am using the domestic hot water coil on the oil fired boiler. What is the best configuration to do this? I presently have the supply of the coal boiler running to the return or a low port on the oil boiler and return to supply on coal to oil.
GaryFerg
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Energy King boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon TLC 2000
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: oil

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