omg now what am i going to do?

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: davidmcbeth3 On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:13 am

I would keep it pex ... if metal, how hot would it get? Who knows ..
davidmcbeth3
 
Coal Size/Type: nut/pea/anthra
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Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: Lu47Dan On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 2:01 am

Run a temporary set of supply pipes for now.
Then once the ground thaws out, dig a new trench from the building to the house, install 4" PVC Electrical conduit, between the two. Use long radius sweeps to turn the corners. Install the new pex or soft copper into the conduit.
I helped a friend replace the tubing between his house and his shop to his water stove about two years ago. When the stove was installed, the lines were laid on styrofoam panels, with spacers along the edges of the panels and another panel on top. When we dug up the old tubing we discovered that the void had filled with water and mud. Once the new system was installed we could turn the upper limit down eight degrees.
The conduit should extend above the floor enough to keep water and detritus out of it.
Make sure you have about three feet of black iron pipe between the boilers outlet and the pex. This should temper the pulses or high temperature spikes coming out of the boiler. Water tends to flow faster in the center of a pipe than along the wall of the pipe. Fittings in the system induce turbulence into the water flow, mixing the cooler outer water with the hotter center water. Turbulence in the water can and does in a hot water system introduces erosion on the piping. The higher the water temperatures the more pipe can be eroded.
That is why you need to deburr the pipe after cutting, there should not be a reduction in the ID of the pipe. A slight tapering to the outside of the pipe is fine on copper. On black iron pipe (BIP) a tapered reamer is used to remove the burr.
A boiler should have a a supply header and a return header.
The supply header should be BIP.
The return header can be copper.
Oxygen Barrier pex needs to be used whenever you have Iron products in your system.
Dan.
Lu47Dan
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Sears circulator air tight stove.
Other Heating: Crown 115,000 BTU oil fired boiler(house) Weil Mclain 150,000BTU oil fired boiler(Shop)

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:13 am

Man its been cold outside! :doh:
waldo lemieux
 
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
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Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: GaryFerg On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:53 am

Your right I didn't have a fill valve on the boiler So that might have been the problem. Because of the coast I am not going with pex again I will use black iron pipe. I just not sure how to insulate it. I have had this system running for 6 years now with a few times it has overshot for various reasons. Since this has happened I have a terrible head cold so not sure if I am going out there to work on it today, If I can dig up enough pipe and find a good section to patch up to then that is what I will do until spring.
GaryFerg
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Energy King boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon TLC 2000
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: oil

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:00 am

Run the black pipe through a larger diameter PVC pipe. Use spacers to center the black pipe in the PVC. Drill holes every foot or two and inject expanding spray foam. Seal the holes with some epoxy and back fill. That should work pretty well.
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: CoalisCoolxWarm On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:43 am

windyhill4.2 wrote:Boilers don't generally go much over 200* & 30 psi ,do they ?? Have to plan our situation when we do switch to coal.


Boilers typically pop off at 30psi and operate at 200F or below (water temp). The problem is, what happens when it goes over those numbers...you need to have tolerance for temporary spikes in those numbers. Without some cushion, you will either be just fine if you never have a problem, or you will have a 'catastrophic failure' (sudden and significant failure) such as piping failures.

Back to OP...

What size pex did you have underground, and what size is your main loop? Did you design and install the plumbing system? I am curious about how you are running and distributing your heat. Main loop, heating zones, etc. Why? If there are size/volume issues, you may have some flow, pressure, or btu issues that stress your system, possibly contributing to mthe recent failure.

PEX can be fine buried, if it is done properly and within tolerances (mostly temp). Iron would work, too, but you lose the freezes tolerance of pex. I would personally avoid copper for that section It has higher heat loss and doesn't have the strength of blackiron nor the tolerance for cold of pex.

Whatever you choose, you will want to take the time to dig, prepare, and insulate a proper ditch and conduit. As mentioned by others, foam and waterproofing as well as crush tolerance (we have a lot of clay here with a lot of rock, so earth movement and hydraulic soil is a serious consideration for us on anything in the ground).

What kind of main loop do you have? Is the underground section part of it? What was the diameter of your main loop/underground pex?

Sorry to hear you are under the weather while your system is down. Hopefully this mild spell will give you time to recover.
CoalisCoolxWarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA6
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Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: GaryFerg On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:14 pm

looks like i have 1 inch pex. it runs into a heat exchanger that is then circulated through my oil fired boiler. Zones are from that by circulator.so i have two circulators one from coal boiler to heat exchanger and another to circulate hot water through heat exchanger to oil boiler. when one stops the other takes over.think i will go with 11/4 black pipe at least for now
GaryFerg
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Energy King boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon TLC 2000
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: oil

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: GaryFerg On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:43 pm

I have been digging it up trying to find a section that is still usable. So far, it in collapsed like in the picture I sent. I am now 3 feet or so out and underground still no good pipe. Where it comes out inside the house is good (round) so there must be some good pipe. I want to try to catch a good spot so I can splice and hook back up until spring. Guess I will keep digging, it has to be dug up anyway. Nothing else I can do now anyway my car that I would use to carry the pipe in is in the shop and I cant carry 10' black iron pipe in a smart car!
GaryFerg
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Energy King boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon TLC 2000
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: oil

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:21 pm

Are you telling me that the pressure blew pipe three feet under the soil? Do it blow away the soil too? Im goin way out on a limb but,.... your pipe froze not overheated. If it was overheat it would have softened at the first fitting and blew apart right there. I guess it doesnt really matter why ,you still have to fix it anyway , but if the failure was due to freezing and you put iron back in you best be adding insulation. Iron sucks for freeze protection , and is much better at loosing heat to the environment. No matter what it sucks to have to bend over with a head cold :no1:
waldo lemieux
 
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
Stove/Furnace Model: s-20

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:29 pm

I'm interested to see how much of the PEX split. 5 feet? 10 feet? More? It sure is a head scratcher :?
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: GaryFerg On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:50 pm

waldo lemieux wrote:Are you telling me that the pressure blew pipe three feet under the soil? Do it blow away the soil too? Im goin way out on a limb but,.... your pipe froze not overheated. If it was overheat it would have softened at the first fitting and blew apart right there. I guess it doesnt really matter why ,you still have to fix it anyway , but if the failure was due to freezing and you put iron back in you best be adding insulation. Iron sucks for freeze protection , and is much better at loosing heat to the environment. No matter what it sucks to have to bend over with a head cold :no1:

I dont think it froze its very unlikely return is fine uninsulated domestic water pipes that run alongside this heat pipe never froze no I am sure that isn't the cause.
GaryFerg
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Energy King boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon TLC 2000
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: oil

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: GaryFerg On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:51 pm

should i decided to replace with pex again any suggestions and where do I get it?
GaryFerg
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Energy King boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon TLC 2000
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: oil

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 1:57 pm

pexuniverse

Box stores might carry as well
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: McGiever On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:22 pm

:idea: Might consider buying a new 30 psi pressure relief valve also. :idea:
McGiever
 
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Re: omg now what am i going to do?

PostBy: waldo lemieux On: Sat Feb 01, 2014 5:02 pm

Uponor Aluminum barrier pex.
waldo lemieux
 
Stove/Furnace Make: efm
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