Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

Re: Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

PostBy: LsFarm On: Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:15 pm

LOL, I used to have a 1000' driveway, and it was a 'drift magnet'.. I ALWAYS drifted over.. and it was a real pain.
Now my old farmhouse is only 100' from the road, and I hate it.. summer dust, *censored* drivers going down a dirt road, with blind hills, driveways, kids on bikes, people walking their dogs.. and the *censored* drive at 50mph.. Just one mile south is a parallel paved road, with shoulders, ditches, clear visibility of roads and driveways.. WTF ??

OK rant over..

The comments about surface temps of a stove are made to point out that a properly sealed and set up coal stove can be idled down to burn at quite low temperatures, or made to really run hot. And there is no smoke, creosote, or other issues from burning a coal stove at low temps. Unlike even the best and driest wood, it will make creosote if it is starved for oxygen, which you have to do to keep the heat produced under control and to lengthen the burn times.

Glad you got the driveway cleared, just in time for more snow on Tuesday/Wednesday !! :mad: :shock: :mad:

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

PostBy: scalabro On: Sun Feb 02, 2014 7:34 pm

If the zombie apocalypse happens I'm sure Pancho will have no problem burning wood in an anthracite only stove!
scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford No. 2, PP Stewart 14, Crawford 40
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired forced hot air

Re: Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

PostBy: Pancho On: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:12 pm

LsFarm wrote:LOL, I used to have a 1000' driveway, and it was a 'drift magnet'.. I ALWAYS drifted over.. and it was a real pain.
Now my old farmhouse is only 100' from the road, and I hate it.. summer dust, *censored* drivers going down a dirt road, with blind hills, driveways, kids on bikes, people walking their dogs.. and the *censored* drive at 50mph.. Just one mile south is a parallel paved road, with shoulders, ditches, clear visibility of roads and driveways.. WTF ??

OK rant over..

The comments about surface temps of a stove are made to point out that a properly sealed and set up coal stove can be idled down to burn at quite low temperatures, or made to really run hot. And there is no smoke, creosote, or other issues from burning a coal stove at low temps. Unlike even the best and driest wood, it will make creosote if it is starved for oxygen, which you have to do to keep the heat produced under control and to lengthen the burn times.

Glad you got the driveway cleared, just in time for more snow on Tuesday/Wednesday !! :mad: :shock: :mad:

Greg L


YES...that the term...and I shall borrow it from here on. It IS a drift magnet. Any wind from the South and I am SCREWED. It's nice and isolated back here and to be honest, I haven't had snow issue until this year (I moved in around Nov. of 2000). This year is kickin' my ass. If we get a quick warm up my place will be like Atlantis.

So what are the ballpark surface temps when the she's porkin' out the heat?. I know on my stove, if it's 25 degrees out and stove top center is 550, you are wearing shorts inside.
Pancho
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood No. 8
Coal Size/Type: Stove
Other Heating: Jotul Firelight

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Re: Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

PostBy: Davian On: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:51 pm

Stupid question for the group: Why dont they make parlor stoves anymore? I mean, my Morso 1410 is considered a parlor stove by some but why dont they make those Glenwood style stoves anymore? I'd buy one in a heartbeat but I cant afford $2-3K for a stove right now.

Is it an emissions issue (ie EPA restriction) or did they just fall out of style? Cant imagine why they would but who knows.
Davian
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Morso
Stove/Furnace Model: 1410 Squirrel

Re: Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:54 pm

They are making Chubby stoves again. I think the economics come into play. A box stove is much less expensive to produce. Maybe with heating costs going sky high, more manufacturers will get into the business.
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

PostBy: dlj On: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:54 pm

Pancho wrote:YES...that the term...and I shall borrow it from here on. It IS a drift magnet. Any wind from the South and I am SCREWED. It's nice and isolated back here and to be honest, I haven't had snow issue until this year (I moved in around Nov. of 2000). This year is kickin' my ass. If we get a quick warm up my place will be like Atlantis.

So what are the ballpark surface temps when the she's porkin' out the heat?. I know on my stove, if it's 25 degrees out and stove top center is 550, you are wearing shorts inside.


My stove puts out a lot of heat from 350 on up. Compared to your Jotul, the size of a Glenwwod 6 would mean you are probably pumping out heat at an equivalent level at probably 475 to 500. There's a lot more surface area putting out heat. Even if I'm wrong and it's the same at 550 - that is a very easy temperature to run and maintain in the Glenwood. Basically, as LSFarm said, the surface temps we're talking about are just trying to give you the knowledge that these stoves run a wide range of temps quite easily.

So this winter, for example, we've been having these killer cold temperatures and then suddenly, the temperatures are above freezing. I find it's easy to go from the warm temperatures with the stove running slow and then just stocking it up to run hot - might take 30 minutes. But I find it a lot more tricky to be running hot, say 650 to 750, and then having the stove drop to real low to handle the above freezing temps. Give me a couple days in warm temps and I'll get my stove settled down to run at 200 or even below. But I can't do that in the 30 minutes, might take me a day. It's real easy to change the stove temps to run anywhere from say about 350 to 650.

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:15 pm

Welcome aboard Pancho. LOL I knew you would get the info you need here but had no idea you would get this much this fast! Enjoy, you are going to love this adventure. :)
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

PostBy: dlj On: Sun Feb 02, 2014 10:30 pm

Davian wrote:Stupid question for the group: Why dont they make parlor stoves anymore? I mean, my Morso 1410 is considered a parlor stove by some but why dont they make those Glenwood style stoves anymore? I'd buy one in a heartbeat but I cant afford $2-3K for a stove right now.

Is it an emissions issue (ie EPA restriction) or did they just fall out of style? Cant imagine why they would but who knows.


There are no EPA emissions requirements on coal stoves.

This topic has come up several times. The answer is essentially economics. The costs associated with building a Glenwood style stove would force a selling price way above the current manufacturing techniques used on modern stoves. And what would be the advantages? Almost nothing. If you really think about it, if you were to walk into a store and see a brand new made today Glenwood, you would not look at that stove the same way as walking into an antique store and seeing the exact same stove that's 100 years old - you just think differently about it.

It's like a bunch of years ago, I was helping sell off an estate with a bunch of oriental rugs. They were all old, had been in the family quite some time. So I talked with a guy I knew who was an antique oriental rug dealer. He'd been a friend of the family for a number of years. He came, looked at the rugs and told me that it would be better to just sell the rugs out of the house where they were located rather than give him to sell. We'd get a lot more money from them because nobody would look at them closely. They were indeed old rugs and somewhat worn. He said people would come to the auction, look at the rugs in their place and go "Ooh Aaah, real old original oriental rugs!" And they would pay accordingly. If we put them on commission in his store, people would come, look at them and examine every single inch of them. Then they would complain that they were worn here and there etc. and chew him down on price. He was right. They sold like hot cakes out of the estate sale and we got top dollar for them...

dj
dlj
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Re: Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

PostBy: franco b On: Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:18 am

dlj wrote:This topic has come up several times. The answer is essentially economics. The costs associated with building a Glenwood style stove would force a selling price way above the current manufacturing techniques used on modern stoves. And what would be the advantages? Almost nothing. If you really think about it, if you were to walk into a store and see a brand new made today Glenwood, you would not look at that stove the same way as walking into an antique store and seeing the exact same stove that's 100 years old - you just think differently about it.

I agree that it is economic but only because the market is so small compared to wood and pellet stoves. Many things that we buy new have antique styling including furniture and even houses.

In the late 1970s there were many French and German and British stoves that were quite involved in the complication of their cast iron construction. The Vermont Castings Vigilant coal stove is also but they had the wood model to convert to coal so did not have to start from the ground up.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

PostBy: KingCoal On: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:43 am

dlj wrote:
Pancho wrote:YES...that the term...and I shall borrow it from here on. It IS a drift magnet. Any wind from the South and I am SCREWED. It's nice and isolated back here and to be honest, I haven't had snow issue until this year (I moved in around Nov. of 2000). This year is kickin' my ass. If we get a quick warm up my place will be like Atlantis.

So what are the ballpark surface temps when the she's porkin' out the heat?. I know on my stove, if it's 25 degrees out and stove top center is 550, you are wearing shorts inside.


My stove puts out a lot of heat from 350 on up. Compared to your Jotul, the size of a Glenwwod 6 would mean you are probably pumping out heat at an equivalent level at probably 475 to 500. There's a lot more surface area putting out heat. Even if I'm wrong and it's the same at 550 - that is a very easy temperature to run and maintain in the Glenwood. Basically, as LSFarm said, the surface temps we're talking about are just trying to give you the knowledge that these stoves run a wide range of temps quite easily.

dj


i'm glad to see some one else voice that opinion, i have thought this for some time but not found a direct remark about it.

judging from fire pot size, coal capacity, radiant surface area etc. i expected that a stove of the GW #6 design would probably release as much heat into a living space at 300-350* as a box stove of similar capacity at 500*+

my search is getting narrower all the time.
Last edited by KingCoal on Mon Feb 03, 2014 10:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DSM 1400, Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none
Stove/Furnace Model: 2013 1400 Circulator

Re: Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

PostBy: Photog200 On: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:51 am

I would also agree that I get a lot more heat out of this larger antique stove when burning at 400° than I did with my Jōtul wood stove at 400°. There is a much larger surface area, especially with the baseburner engaged.
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, & Kineo #15 base heater
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Feb 03, 2014 12:15 pm

Just to point out the obvious about heated surfaces.

A small area at high temps: A smaller stove, running at say, 600*.
A medium sized area at lower temperature: A larger stove, running at 400*.
And a very large area at low temperatures: Like a radiant hot water heated floor. Like my floor at 75-78*. but we are talking about the entire main floor of my living space, somewhere around 1200 sqft.

The trick is to control the temps of the heating 'device' to keep the room at a comfortable temperature.

Greg L
LsFarm
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Self-built 'Big Bertha' SS Boiler
Baseburners & Antiques: Keystone 11, Art Garland

Re: Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

PostBy: just peter On: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:06 pm

I will suggest a vermont casting vigilant 2, for a few reasons.
1: if the jotul is not hearting your eyes, the vigilant will neither, at least from the other and of the room.
2: The vigilant is probaly closest to the antique stoves with heating surface.
See the comments of Nortcan who owned one, and was quiet sattisfied with it,
not to mention more then happy with his antiques, but that is a addiction, and i'm jealous.

Peter.
just peter
 
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Coal Size/Type: bituminous coal,
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Re: Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:14 pm

The Hitzers work well, they are just not much to look at. Maybe get one of those to get started at a reasonable cost and then decide if you can live without a gorgeous old stove. Plus, learning the basic of coal burning might be easier with a modern stove. Being able to take your time in finding just the right antique stove might lead to the best buy possible. Unless you find exactly what you're looking for in short order.
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Slowly but surely getting ready to switch from wood to coal

PostBy: just peter On: Mon Feb 03, 2014 2:34 pm

This is a verry smart solution.

Peter.
just peter
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Weso 225 C3, unknown Altan
Coal Size/Type: bituminous coal,
Stove/Furnace Make: unknown, Weso
Stove/Furnace Model: Altan, 225C tile stove

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