Advice on air return

Re: Advice on air return

PostBy: n0useforaname On: Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:33 am

McGiever wrote:Do plan on using a blower/fan to force the air circuit thru duct.

It will not work passively to move either hot air down or cold air up...they can only move in those directions by applying suffient force.

You understand?


Maybe you are saying something different, but the line to the basement is hooked to my stove which has a distribution blower pumping the air through constantly. It already raised the temp 11 degrees which is pretty good for even coming from the ceiling. And right now I'm only running the blower on low speed, and it's coming out pretty good.

Carbon12 wrote:Electric heaters in the basement for when you want to use the basement, would be the cheapest way of heating,.....short term. Or consider a used stoker with direct or power vent if no chimney access in basement.


I have baseboard electric heat down there right now, and it's hooked to a wireless honeywell programmable thermostat. Even with it set to only heat when needed, it raised my electric bill enough that I quit doing it. I ran it for one month straight and I think my bill was something like 130.00 extra bucks.... and my basement is insulated very well.
n0useforaname
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Super Mag Stoker

Re: Advice on air return

PostBy: McGiever On: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:01 pm

Thought you were not content???
But, as you said, floor level not up + 11 degrees. Take a temp. reading 6" off floor and see. You have kids, where they going to be...on floor, maybe.
You going the 'air circuit' route? It will take some more force to do air circiut than that small fan.
If yes, I am just trying to show you where you will be disappointed before you get there...but go a head if you must.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Advice on air return

PostBy: n0useforaname On: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:20 pm

McGiever wrote:Thought you were not content???
But, as you said, floor level not up + 11 degrees. Take a temp. reading 6" off floor and see. You have kids, where they going to be...on floor, maybe.
You going the 'air circuit' route? It will take some more force to do air circiut than that small fan.
If yes, I am just trying to show you where you will be disappointed before you get there...but go a head if you must.


To clarify a bit because I'm all over the place.. my goal is to properly try to circulate the air with what I have going on.. It would be nice to open the basement door, because essentially I would be heating my basement and helping my upstairs too... instead of separating them.. and I"m trying to figure the best way to do this. Right now if I open my door to circulate I feel that it will just make the basement colder and all the heat coming out of the ceiling will just roll up stairs. I could turn my blower up, but then it become obnoxiously loud.. that thing can push A LOT of air on high, but it sounds like a jet plane. And the basement is for the kids.. I have my TV mounted and a living room set down there, but the other 70% has a ball pit, slide, power wheels, play mat, etc.. and the kids are pretty much on the floor. So right now I'm thinking that if I can get the heat to exit at floor level, and open the door.. that it might be a good solution for me. A ceiling fan would be nice, but I don't think I could set one up properly without going through a lot of hassle.

Here is my current plan:

1st.. I have a weird stand up sphere like fan that has all sorts of settings.. I'm gonna try to put that on circulate and see if it helps or hurts...
2nd.. if fan hurts, I will then look for a way to get heat to exit from floor and not the ceiling and open the door upstairs...
3rd.. if all else fails.. maybe find some type of ceiling fan that I could easily put up, or learn to live with down there.

I know someone said about putting another stoker/powervent downstairs, but I really don't wanna burn double the coal and double my work. Plus the only exit point would be under my deck, and I don't wanna be out in the hot tub breathing in exhaust.

EDIT: what about something like this??? http://www.newceilingtiles.com/Building ... Ogodr34Agw
n0useforaname
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Super Mag Stoker


Re: Advice on air return

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:24 pm

How did you heat the basement before?
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Advice on air return

PostBy: n0useforaname On: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:34 pm

Carbon12 wrote:How did you heat the basement before?


I really didn't.. When we decided to use it once in a blue moon, we would crank the electric heat for an hour prior to going down there. But it sucks because we would like to use it more often since we re-carpeted, mounted the TV, etc.. but it's a PITA. And since we decided to upgrade the Mark II to a Stoker we thought, why not pump heat down there so we can use it all the time. Over Xmas I heated it for 3 days straight, and I literally never left down there because it's a nice get-a-way.. So now I want to finalize it so I can enjoy it. I also have a full bath down there, and that's where I shower.. it would be nice to not haul azz upstairs after a shower so I don't freeze :D
n0useforaname
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Super Mag Stoker

Re: Advice on air return

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:43 pm

Sounds nice! Pumping the hot air down will be challenging and you may not be able to get perfectly satisfactory results but any bit of heat will help. Anything you can do to mix the upstairs air and the downstairs air should be your goal. Even if you need to cut a couple floor registers in and blow some warm air down and cooler air up. It's ironic,....most people have a stove in the basement and want to get the warmer air up and the cooler air down. That is much easier to do.
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Advice on air return

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:53 pm

$150 for a fan to move air for 144 sq.ft. ?? Ain't worth it ! Find a way to get your heat piped to the floor,cheap economical solution & even if the temp is on the low side of comfort level ,you can always turn the electric heat on for those last few degrees of comfort without tearing your house or budget up.
windyhill4.2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Other Heating: Oaktree OWB 600K

Re: Advice on air return

PostBy: n0useforaname On: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:30 pm

Carbon12 wrote:Sounds nice! Pumping the hot air down will be challenging and you may not be able to get perfectly satisfactory results but any bit of heat will help. Anything you can do to mix the upstairs air and the downstairs air should be your goal. Even if you need to cut a couple floor registers in and blow some warm air down and cooler air up. It's ironic,....most people have a stove in the basement and want to get the warmer air up and the cooler air down. That is much easier to do.


Yeah, I did everything backwards :) The house was already setup with a Mark II in the living room.. so installing the stoker was an easy in and out. To put it in my basement would require a powervent and then the exhaust would blow up through my porch, and I don't want that. I mean, even right now it's 100X better than it was. I'm just looking for a way to circulate it a little bit if possible.

windyhill4.2 wrote:$150 for a fan to move air for 144 sq.ft. ?? Ain't worth it ! Find a way to get your heat piped to the floor,cheap economical solution & even if the temp is on the low side of comfort level ,you can always turn the electric heat on for those last few degrees of comfort without tearing your house or budget up.


Yeah, price is not ideal, but if it can push enough air to hit the floor then I may try it. I don't want to say money is no object, but for everything I already spent.. if 150.00 will fix my last problem, then I'll drop the cash if needed.
n0useforaname
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Super Mag Stoker

Re: Advice on air return

PostBy: n0useforaname On: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:43 pm

So the wife just called and said it's now to 68 degrees.. I didn't think it was gonna go any higher, but that's pretty awesome :) Any higher than 70 and I would be miserable, so maybe all I will need is a stand up fan running in the room. woo!
n0useforaname
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Super Mag Stoker

Re: Advice on air return

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:49 pm

68 in an essentially unheated basement is awesome! Take the money you're saving and run!
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Advice on air return

PostBy: Rigar On: Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:40 pm

....keep it simple-
try a 20 dollar box fan near a corner...
your best bet now is to simply 'stir ' the room air gently.
...essentially mixing it
of course introducing heat much lower into the room would be better...you be suprised how much more comfortable the room will feel if you can simply eliminate the cool spots
...btw...if its been unheated for a while... it may take a few days to reach temp-
... remember with coal- slow and steady wins the race
....good luck
Rigar
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker A 150
Coal Size/Type: anthracite rice
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: A 150 warm air furnace

Re: Advice on air return

PostBy: n0useforaname On: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:15 am

So I've come up with a couple new ideas..

1. I might try to find a way to make some 6" black pipe look nice, and run it down the corner of my room.. that way it will pump heat from the floor. Just concerned that if I extend it another 10 feet or so, that it might lose some temp and blow colder air.

2. I thought about making a functional decoration.. Imagine a typical half a rectangular door handle.. something like this [ ... where the top is an angled piece, and bottom too.. and there is a 6" inline fan sucking air from the top to bottom.. then I could put it in the corner of my room to pull ceiling air to the floor.

Box fan has me nervous, and I've talked to a couple people who have had them malfunction and catch fire/etc.. and I don't wanna burn my house down. Right now it's holding a steady 68, and maybe it's just my excitement, but it honestly feels warmer to me than 68.. like sitting there in a normal hoodie actually makes me hot. Either way, it's fantastic and I'm impressed that my incorrect setup has turned my basement into a livable area without burning any extra coal. My Stoker is still running on low.. it's been in the low teens here, and the upstairs is staying 72-73 and basement 68.. it's awesome.

It's also nice to have a place like this to talk about furnaces and heat... most of my friends/etc.. could care less :)
n0useforaname
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Super Mag Stoker

Re: Advice on air return

PostBy: McGiever On: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:27 am

Your #2 will do a great job...mixing...de-stratifing the warm air layer to an even uniform temp.
As was mention, give it a few days for temps to stabilize the whole rooms mass. :)
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Advice on air return

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:32 am

Glad to hear such a good progress report,as Rigar said it takes some time to warm up the "mass"in the basement, concrete floor,block walls & all the belongings .Its doubtful that 10' of extra pipe to get heat to the floor will deliver worse temp air than just blowing it out from the ceiling.You stated that you will have to mess up a shelf to install a pipe to floor,without seeing your floor lay out & thinking most basements have a post or two under the center beam & if yours is like that,could you run the heat duct to a post,down the post with either a pipe or make a sq. or rectangular surround for the post & have "central" hot air heat ?
windyhill4.2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Other Heating: Oaktree OWB 600K

Re: Advice on air return

PostBy: n0useforaname On: Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:40 am

windyhill4.2 wrote:Glad to hear such a good progress report,as Rigar said it takes some time to warm up the "mass"in the basement, concrete floor,block walls & all the belongings .Its doubtful that 10' of extra pipe to get heat to the floor will deliver worse temp air than just blowing it out from the ceiling.You stated that you will have to mess up a shelf to install a pipe to floor,without seeing your floor lay out & thinking most basements have a post or two under the center beam & if yours is like that,could you run the heat duct to a post,down the post with either a pipe or make a sq. or rectangular surround for the post & have "central" hot air heat ?


I'll have to snap some pics and post them. My biggest problem is where the air comes out in the ceiling. There is a floor joist running in a really crappy area... so it hindered my original plan. So if I hit the corner of the room up, it might not look as bad being un-even with the top wall.. But I did also thing about trying to come down the support beam in the middle of the room too. After I get pics up, I'll see what you guys think. I"m going to a conference for work tomorrow, and will be away until Wed.. so I'll have time to think.
n0useforaname
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Super Mag Stoker