Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:12 am

1 Ton of anthracite burned at 75% efficiency should replace the following:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
5,340 KWH's of Electricity (at 100% efficiency)
151 gallons of #2 Heating Oil (at 87% efficiency)
164 gallons of #2 Heating Oil (at 80% efficiency)
187 gallons of #2 Heating Oil (at 70% efficiency)
222 gallons of Propane (at 90% efficiency)
250 gallons of Propane (at 80% efficiency)
285 gallons of Propane (at 70% efficiency)
19.72 Mcf of Natural Gas (at 90% efficiency)
22.19 Mcf of Natural Gas (at 80% efficiency)
25.35 Mcf of Natural Gas (at 70% efficiency)
197.2 Ccf (roughly Therms) of Natural Gas (at 90% efficiency)
221.9 Ccf (roughly Therms) of Natural Gas (at 80% efficiency)
253.5 Ccf (roughly Therms) of Natural Gas (at 70% efficiency)
1.5 "full" (or 4.5 "face") cords of wood (at 55% efficiency)
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:59 am

OK,,,,, The info on my Van Wert 400 suggests that with the coal I'm burning now, I should burn at a 87% efficient rate. How do the numbers work out with that?
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x3, 700 Van Wert 800
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:02 am

Multiply all of the above by 1.16 for 87% coal efficiency. But be very wary of realistically achieving 87% sustained coal burning efficiency in the real world.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)


Re: Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

PostBy: DennisH On: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:09 am

Do the figures take into consideration the temperature one tries to maintain in their house? In the past 60 days of bitter cold we've been having, I would have conservatively burned 15-20 gal per day with propane to keep my house @ 65degF, so anywhere from 900-1200 gal that would have been used. That coming from past use before I heated with coal. That would equate to approx 4-5 tons of coal using the figures provided. However, during that same period I used 120 bags (2 x 60 - 40# bag pallets) or 4800lbs of coal to keep my house a toasty 73degF. I'm guessing to keep my house @ 73degF with propane I'd be looking in the neighborhood of 1500 gal used over those 60 days (approx. 25 gal/day). At the price I have locked in for propane that would have cost me $2600 for 1500 gal. 120 bags of coal @ $6 per bag cost me $720. Quite the difference with coal! :D
DennisH
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Yukon-Eagle Klondike IV
Other Heating: Propane

Re: Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:17 am

DennisH wrote:Do the figures take into consideration the temperature one tries to maintain in their house?


The figures assume that you are keeping you home at the same temperature across the various fuels. I figure about 2.5% of additional fuel consumed for every added degree of warmth.
Last edited by lsayre on Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:18 am

No one is going to achieve 87% efficiency burning anthracite in an appliance. It isn't going to happen. A stove will run about 60-70% and a boiler in the 70-80% range. Axemans and AHSs by design may achieve low to mid 80s but 87% from a solid fuel is stepping into dreamland.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

PostBy: davidmcbeth3 On: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:19 am

Isn't there a calculator on the top of the page that can do all this?
davidmcbeth3
 
Coal Size/Type: nut/pea/anthra
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 503

Re: Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:20 am

davidmcbeth3 wrote:Isn't there a calculator on the top of the page that can do all this?


Try it and let me know if it works as easily to achieve the same task. ;)

The fuel calculator for this forum (the link you are referring to) is great, and I use it often, but it was really designed to achieve a different goal of equating dollars to dollars on a fixed BTU's basis of 1 million BTU's. I'm equating BTU's to BTU's (based on 1 ton of coal) with no consideration for dollars.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

PostBy: Horace On: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:03 pm

coaledsweat wrote:No one is going to achieve 87% efficiency burning anthracite in an appliance. It isn't going to happen. A stove will run about 60-70% and a boiler in the 70-80% range. Axemans and AHSs by design may achieve low to mid 80s but 87% from a solid fuel is stepping into dreamland.


But if I'm reading this right, Larry used 75% efficiency on one ton of coal:

lsayre wrote:1 Ton of anthracite burned at 75% efficiency should replace the following:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Which, for a boiler, which Larry is using, falls right into your range. Or am I reading this incorrectly?
Horace
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman ST8-VF8 / Frankenstove

Re: Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:11 pm

Horace wrote:Which, for a boiler, which Larry is using, falls right into your range. Or am I reading this incorrectly?

You're good. My comment was directed at:
Scottscoaled wrote:OK,,,,, The info on my Van Wert 400 suggests that with the coal I'm burning now, I should burn at a 87% efficient rate. How do the numbers work out with that?
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:22 pm

coaledsweat wrote:No one is going to achieve 87% efficiency burning anthracite in an appliance. It isn't going to happen. A stove will run about 60-70% and a boiler in the 70-80% range. Axemans and AHSs by design may achieve low to mid 80s but 87% from a solid fuel is stepping into dreamland.

Since we don't have any unbiased laboratory reports for the best of the antique stoves that I know of, I think it best to withhold any conclusion as to efficiency. My own belief is that when run at their most efficient firing rates they will exceed that 87 percent figure.

In modern stoves the Surdiac claims 84 percent and Franco Belge received a 93 percent figure from the German DIN government laboratory. No doubt these were at one specific firing rate and do not represent a range of rates where avarage efficiency would fall off.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:25 pm

By my rough, first season burning, calculations I burn a ton every 800 degree days. My previous 185 gallon +/- oil delivery came every 900 degree days. The oil furnace is, allegedly, 85% efficient. This would seem to indicated the coal boiler is less efficient, HOWEVER, I use the boiler for all DHW. Makes the calculation more difficult but it appears I'm somewhere in the neighborhood of 85% efficiency. That's also the efficiency Keystoker states between gross input and net output. Whatever the case,.....I'm saving tons of $$$ :D

Edit: Of course, I keep the house 2-4 degrees warmer with the coal than I ever did with the oil. Further muddies the calculation puddle :?
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:44 pm

Ok,,,, So some information would suggest that my Van Wert 400 is running at 55% efficiency. So how would the numbers stack up that way Larry?
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x3, 700 Van Wert 800
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

PostBy: lsayre On: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:55 pm

Carbon12 wrote:By my rough, first season burning, calculations I burn a ton every 800 degree days. My previous 185 gallon +/- oil delivery came every 900 degree days. The oil furnace is, allegedly, 85% efficient. This would seem to indicated the coal boiler is less efficient, HOWEVER, I use the boiler for all DHW. Makes the calculation more difficult but it appears I'm somewhere in the neighborhood of 85% efficiency. That's also the efficiency Keystoker states between gross input and net output. Whatever the case,.....I'm saving tons of $$$ :D

Edit: Of course, I keep the house 2-4 degrees warmer with the coal than I ever did with the oil. Further muddies the calculation puddle :?


How efficient is your oil boiler? And did you heat DHW with electricity before? Assuming 420 KWH per month for your electric DHW, I get:

420/30.5 = 13.77 KWH per day for DHW
13.77 x 3,412 ~= 47,000 BTU's per day for DHW
Granting 85% efficient for coal at this point I get this as 4.55 lbs per day of coal for DHW

Assuming 3,500 total HDD's to date from October 1st, I get about 26.52 HDD's per day on average for Harrisburg, PA (to date).
800/26.52 = 30.17 days to burn one ton of coal to date, or 66.3 average pounds per day.
Take away 4.55 and you have 61.75 lbs. per day going to home heat.

900/26.52 = 33.94 days to burn 185 lbs of oil, or 4.45 gallons per day.

4.45 gallons of oil = 616,770 gross BTU's for home heat per day via #2 Heating Oil

61.75 lbs. coal x 12,150 BTU's/Lb. = 750,263 gross BTU's per day for home heat via coal

From this it would appear that your coal boiler is only about 82.2% as efficient on a daily basis as is your oil boiler.
Last edited by lsayre on Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Considering coal? How to equate coal to your present fuel

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:58 pm

Oil forced air furnace and electric hot water heater. Let me look more closely at your numbers. I e burned about 4 tons so far
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace