I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:38 pm

A guy I work with (our Plant Engineer) just told me that his "delivered" cost for NG is currently $6.46 per Mcf. I would have to be getting anthracite delivered to my door at about $145 per ton to be able to compete with that.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

PostBy: EarthWindandFire On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:45 pm

Larry,

I'm in the process of changing out my electric clothes dryer, electric range and my oil-fired furnace for natural gas versions. Not all at once, but as they age and need replacement.
EarthWindandFire
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 75.
Other Heating: Oil and Natural Gas.

Re: I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:56 pm

I think Sting recently poster NG reserves are down and prices are going up. It is still dirt cheap though! :mad:
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace


Re: I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

PostBy: dcrane On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:04 pm

Carbon12 wrote:I think Sting recently poster NG reserves are down and prices are going up. It is still dirt cheap though! :mad:


yes... NG prices are on the rise, but right now people wont even buy houses unless they have NG available! soon enough the carpet will be PULLED OUT FROM UNDER THEIR FEET toothy
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

PostBy: Anthracite Ed On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:08 pm

We are paying $8.90 per mcf here in Harrisburg Pa delivered, Latest bill $740 for an 8 unit apartment building
Only going to go up in future with the Electric utilities burning Gas instead of Coal, Also with Liquified Gas exports coming in the not too distant future, Gonna stick with coal heat in the old homestead
Anthracite Ed
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Channing III
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark II
Coal Size/Type: UAE Classic Deep Mined
Other Heating: Electric Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: Mark II

Re: I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:15 pm

lsayre wrote:A guy I work with (our Plant Engineer) just told me that his "delivered" cost for NG is currently $6.46 per Mcf. I would have to be getting anthracite delivered to my door at about $145 per ton to be able to compete with that.


Was he talking about his gas bill at home or the gas bill for the Plant?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

PostBy: EarthWindandFire On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:21 pm

It's not just the PRICE that makes natural gas attractive. Even if the cost were to rise, which it inevitably will, the supply is readily available and billed monthly. What's better than a stove that you can cook on even if the electric is out. Also, the ability to run a generator FOREVER without having to worry about the fuel supply. I remember people driving to Connecticut in compact cars full of with 5 gallon gas cans to fill up.
EarthWindandFire
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Leisure Line Lil' Heater.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer model 75.
Other Heating: Oil and Natural Gas.

Re: I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

PostBy: freetown fred On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:27 pm

It's just the HOOK Larry, stick around--you'll love it--can I talk anybody into SATTELITE TV for $29.99 (small print) with 2 or 3 yr contract--how'd that work out for everybody?--don't forget the FREE install :clap: toothy
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

PostBy: Berlin On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:52 pm

EarthWindandFire wrote:It's not just the PRICE that makes natural gas attractive. Even if the cost were to rise, which it inevitably will, the supply is readily available and billed monthly. What's better than a stove that you can cook on even if the electric is out. Also, the ability to run a generator FOREVER without having to worry about the fuel supply. I remember people driving to Connecticut in compact cars full of with 5 gallon gas cans to fill up.


I have natural gas at my home, but I prefer to be able to buy fuel when I want to and NOT have a standing charge every month for the line connection. Aside from coal, if oil and NG were comparable in price, I would choose oil heat every time.

Larry, the delivered cost of residential NG will never be close to what a major user pays. Same with coal; some large powerplants pay as little as $10/ton delivered for coal, no small user will pay that.

Larry, he's paying more than I am right now (5.74/mcf) and I'm still beating it w/ bituminous stoker coal @ delivered cost of $115/ton $5.97/MMbtu vs. $6.96/MMbtuNG @70 and 80% efficiency respectively.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

PostBy: blrman07 On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:55 pm

I did quite a bit of research on putting in a heating system for our storefront church. It had an oil fired boiler and radiators but long before we rented it someone broke in and stole all the copper and all the radiators. Before the oil boiler there was a coal boiler. The coal chute was still in place and coal residue in the bunker. Since we are in the heart of coal country I really considered putting a coal unit in. I wanted to go with two stoker hot air units and stage them but that would require dedicating someone to put in coal and take out ashes. If they goof or they forget, the church is cold come Sunday morning. I have enough problems with a brandy new start-up church without having that on the back of my mind. My quicky heat survey came up to 80K and change needed for our first floor sanctuary area.

I talked to the gas company and they put in an inch and 1/2 line from the main in the street to the building for free as long as we used gas sometime in the first year. We had a used two stage Trane 100k BTU hot air furnace donated. The money was donated for the parts for the ducting. We ran the gas line inside the building and ran the ducting ourselves. Total cost for installation of gas to the building, gas piping inside the building, hot air furnace, ducting, and start-up by a licensed heating tech. came to $742. And most of that was black iron pipe and fittings. We supplied all the labor. The local codes required that the start-up be done by a state licensed contractor to sign off on our permit.

Our gas bill for December was $68. Our gas bill for January which was a horrendous month.........$98.

The old oil fired boiler was pushed into the corner of the basement and could be retrofitted with a nat gas burner when we expand in the future. If nat gas goes up and coal is cheaper, we will still be able to throw a coal unit in there. No matter which way prices go, we can adapt. :D

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pa.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, using a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly stove in the church
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:56 pm

Rob R. wrote:Was he talking about his gas bill at home or the gas bill for the Plant?


His home gas bill.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)

Re: I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:04 pm

I can understand the Attraction,Larry......What my History tells me,what really left a Mark on me,was when the rug got pulled out from under the N.G. Customers feet. It was the late 60's into the 70's that the price spiked through the Roof. I've said before that I remember all the Greenhouse Operations that forever closed down. I remember Folks running Colder Homes. My Dad worked for the old East Ohio Gas Co. He had no good opinion about what was going on ! Try to remember that You can opportune buy Coal in the Summer Moments and Store Indefinitely on Your Property. After this Tough Year,that Window may be Drastically Shorter,but may still exist. You can't store N.G. for Personal Use. When Coal's bought and Paid for,it's Yours to use. You Control. You Secure. Sure,it's only Money! :lol: ,but when You need it,it's there. You Are Warm! :up: You've also,through the Mechanism of Stockpiling,secured some Peace Of Mind! There's Folks right now,that wished they'd of pushed the Stockpiling Envelope a Few More Tons to Secure Their Heat. You've done well to come so far,so fast,Larry! You're a Definite Asset To This Board,and You Provide Many Thought Provoking Posts to Wake Many from Their "Heads In The Sand Slumber" ! Carry On,Holmes!! :up: :gee:
Hambden Bob
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni !

Re: I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:31 pm

Oh the wonders of gas piped to your house !! Talk to the people who woke up to a cold house ,called the gas co.,whats the problem ?? Too many people using too much for the pipe line to supply !?!?!? Put that in your heater & try to warm the house,so much for winter preparation ,better keep your coal bin filled & coal heating system in place as a back up.The above scenario happened in Jan.2014 in Lebanon,Pa. ,just one of the areas with supply issue.
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

PostBy: McGiever On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:40 pm

If you may be so bold Larry, ask to see his bill...it may just not be "delivered" price.
I recently was solicited for a rather cheaply priced NG...but solicitations never include "delivery plus all the other fees"...only the cost of the actual fuel itself.

P.S. I have no NG available here anyway.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: I didn't realize that natural gas would be this inexpensive

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:05 pm

McGiever wrote:If you may be so bold Larry, ask to see his bill...it may just not be "delivered" price.
I recently was solicited for a rather cheaply priced NG...but solicitations never include "delivery plus all the other fees"...only the cost of the actual fuel itself.

P.S. I have no NG available here anyway.


He specifically told me $3.96/Mcf for the NG itself, and $2.50/Mcf for all of the other charges. That comes to $6.46 total.

I don't have the option for natural gas here either. It comes within about 1/3 to perhaps only 1/4 of a mile of our house though.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13 KW)