How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

PostBy: Photog200 On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:54 pm

I am hoping to re-do my hearth area in the next year if time with other projects allow. I am trying to come up with ideas on how to incorporate outside air to the stove. I have thought of putting a copper pipe through the wall and just run it under the stove with a shutoff valve on it. I am sure the stove would pull the air in from the closest and easiest source. However this would not look that great to have the copper tube running under the stove. I would welcome some ideas that I might be able to incorporate into the hearth design.

Randy
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:20 pm

Randy,
Is the hearth part of a fireplace ? If so, does it have an ash pit with an outside clean out door ?

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:27 pm

I would put a metal vent, any style you like, flush with the hearth in front of the air intake plumbed either in the basement or along the floor joist to an outside source like a dryer vent with the louvers opening into the house.
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly coat rack
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

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Re: How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

PostBy: Photog200 On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:31 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:Randy,
Is the hearth part of a fireplace ? If so, does it have an ash pit with an outside clean out door ?

Paul

Right now I just have 1/2" cement board directly on the floor with ceramic tile on it. I was thinking about raising the hearth area up off the floor to make it easier to tend the stove. I would be able to put ducting or piping under that. I just did not know how close the venting would have to be to the stove air intake door for it to be efficient. Not part of a fireplace

Randy
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

PostBy: Photog200 On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:49 pm

Photog200 wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:Randy,
Is the hearth part of a fireplace ? If so, does it have an ash pit with an outside clean out door ?

Paul

Right now I just have 1/2" cement board directly on the floor with ceramic tile on it. I was thinking about raising the hearth area up off the floor to make it easier to tend the stove. I would be able to put ducting or piping under that. I just did not know how close the venting would have to be to the stove air intake door for it to be efficient. Not part of a fireplace

Randy

I know I am being lazy and not wanting to take a new picture tonight. I am using an old photo with the other stove that I restored in it. However, it shows the current hearth that I have.

Randy
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Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:53 pm

Randy,

Nice tiles. I think that looks better with a fancy parlor stove then plain brick.

I have one question. What will the colder air feed do to the preheating needed for best combustion in your base burner ?

Reason I ask is , . . since you inspired me to seal the air leaks in my stove, I've noticed that one of the benifits is that the primary slide damper in the ash drawer door is running much hotter now. That extra preheating incoming air has made a noticeable difference in that I get much more complete burning of the coal now. No more half burned pieces, unless I over shake the stove.

If I were to send colder air in that damper, I'm pretty sure I'd be back to were it was before, picking out half burned pieces to put back through the stove, or wasting them on the driveway.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

PostBy: Photog200 On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:11 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:Randy,

Nice tiles. I think that looks better with a fancy parlor stove then plain brick.

I have one question. What will the colder air feed do to the preheating needed for best combustion in your base burner ?

Reason I ask is , . . since you inspired me to seal the air leaks in my stove, I've noticed that one of the benifits is that the primary slide damper in the ash drawer door is running much hotter now. That extra preheating incoming air has made a noticeable difference in that I get much more complete burning of the coal now. No more half burned pieces, unless I over shake the stove.

If I were to send colder air in that damper, I'm pretty sure I'd be back to were it was before, picking out half burned pieces to put back through the stove, or wasting them on the driveway.

Paul

Well, I did not want to contaminate others ideas by posting my thoughts, but here it goes. Since the current hearth area comes into the room quite a bit further than I really need it to, I was thinking about raising a small section of it up on a platform for the stove to sit on. I could bring in the air under that platform. Since my stove is a baseburner, the floor under the stove does get heated and I was hoping that it would warm the air coming in a bit. I am not sure if it would be enough though.
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:31 pm

The platform will warm the air if made of the right material, diamond plate comes to mind and like the base burner, inside the platform could be partitioned to cause the air to serpentine and get warmed :)
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly coat rack
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

PostBy: scalabro On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:37 pm

My Crawford is on a hearth.

I thought of drawing air from the fireplace ash trap door into my MKII when it was there, until I noticed dust and lint being drawn down it while the oil furnace runs.

My chimney has two flues but they share a common clean out in the basement.

I could have run into a CO issue under the right conditions If I had done this.

Be careful!
Last edited by scalabro on Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite.
Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.

Re: How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

PostBy: KingCoal On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:38 pm

i think you're well on the right track of thought. if you raise a platform for the stove to sit on, you will have an air chamber to bring air in to. you can then bring it up out of there thru a register or just a 3 - 4" pipe, behind the stove back in the corner, not under it.

since you have the base burner, you will have what amounts to a second stove pre warmed base chamber. i'd do everything i could to condition / moderate the air temp. before it gets under the raised platform. bring it from as far away as you can and have it's path exposed to as much interior temp. as possible.

i did this same thing the last yr. i used the Riteway with great results. it should work even better for you.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

PostBy: Photog200 On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:39 pm

michaelanthony wrote:The platform will warm the air if made of the right material, diamond plate comes to mind and like the base burner, inside the platform could be partitioned to cause the air to serpentine and get warmed :)

I didn't even think of diamond plate...was thinking of a stone slab. The heat would transfer better through steel, you are right about that.
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

PostBy: Photog200 On: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:47 pm

Gekko wrote:My Crawford is on a hearth.

I thought of drawing air from the fireplace ash trap door into my MKII when it was there, until I noticed dust and lint being drawn down it while the oil furnace runs.

My chimney has two flues but they share a common clean out in the basement.

I could have run into a CO issue under the right conditions If I had done this.

Be careful!

I guess I may have used the phrase "hearth area" incorrectly. Mine is not set up at or near a fireplace. I did attach a photo of my set up...just with an older stove that I no longer have. It is set up in a corner sitting on the floor, it is the only appliance on this chimney. Thank you for pointing out the hazards that might have happened though.
Randy
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base burner & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

PostBy: Lightning On: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:23 am

In my opinion running a dedicated source of combustion air would only be needed if the appliance is in a tight confined area. If its going to be a huge effort to plumb it in, I wouldn't worry about it. Normally a house has plenty of air infiltration and a stove only uses a tiny fraction of it for combustion.

Just my two cents worth.. :)
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

PostBy: dcrane On: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:12 am

Lightning wrote:In my opinion running a dedicated source of combustion air would only be needed if the appliance is in a tight confined area. If its going to be a huge effort to plumb it in, I wouldn't worry about it. Normally a house has plenty of air infiltration and a stove only uses a tiny fraction of it for combustion.

Just my two cents worth.. :)


agree, unless your house is really sealed and tight (like new houses these days) i would not even bother. If your house is a newer "green built" home than you have the right idea... raise the hearth with one small duct vent anywhere even close to the stove and it would draw from it fine if your house is tight. make sure you use a screen outside to stop any lil' vermin from getting in. Kind of a warm idea about making the raised hearth portion into a pre-heated duct itself (if your going to do it... you might as well DO IT... if your stove runs 24/7 through the winter you dont have to worry to much about "radiant" heat from metal on the hearth into your custom hearth duct (running 24/7 maintains that hearth heat no matter what your using), if you need "fast" radiant heat because you run your stove on and off than i can see the benefit of metal)... I guess you could get as elaborate as you want, but here's a simple way to do it cheap and easy...
hearth vent 001.jpg
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dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: How to bring in outside air to my Kineo base burner stove

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:09 am

Easy way to tell if the house is "too tight", does the stove have good draft ? If it has good draft all the way to max output, then the house is not too tight, ....... but if you see the sliding glass door bowing in, . . :D

If it's marginal, then you will need to do something - especially when you move the Clarion into the house too.

Being the devil's advocate, . . you then have to determine if installing an outside air source will at anytime over compensate and bring in more cold air because of the house's stack affect ? I had that happen using the ash pit of my fire place as an outside air feed. To control it, I had to make a linkage and control rod that allowed me to set the right amount of ash pit door opening so it wouldn't be too much opening. And, I had to make sure to close it when the fireplace was not in use, or the living room floor got cold as the house's stack affect pulled in cold air.

Very often, when this is done, the outside air source is attached directly to the air inlet of the heating appliance, so that it doesn't leak cold air into the living space, or the heating appliance is in a sealed area. Not sure how you would do that in your situation.

I had to do this when I built the oil-fired radiant floor heat system in my shop. I didn't want shop dust/fumes getting to the oil burner so I built a closet around it and put an air inlet duct under and up against the stove pipe that then extended down near floor level of the cabinet so it would not bleed off warm cabinet air when the burner was off. The exhaust going up the pipe helped heat the incoming air and reduced the chance of oil burner condensation.

I wonder if there is some way to jacket the stove pipe and use that as the incoming air ?

Paul



Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Visit Hitzer Stoves