Roof collapsing

Roof collapsing

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Tue Feb 18, 2014 10:24 pm

CVS at Summit NJ, Vernon NJ multiple buildings, Whisperwind Farm riding arena just down the road from me and another 16,000 sq ft riding arena that I will give even money does not make it. Tiara Hills (Warwick NY) riding arena cost over $1MM to build 12 years ago and the apex is glass so pretty but now....

So let's guess on our riding ring the total weight of snow sitting there... 3' easy perhaps 4'. Rain coming Friday but then it freezes to 20* so the snow absorbs it and it turns to a block of ice. To think those sissies in Maine worrying about 6" there and 8" on top of that. Other pansies in Freetown Corners boasting -20*. I've seen this before the real damage starts now.

My riding ring? I'm not worried about it. The governor of NJ once sat on it as a test. I think I am good and besides I built it to withstand Buffalo snow loads. However, everything has a limit so 20,000 sq ft of roof space, what weight is up there? GULP. Brush it off, sorry to late for that it's a block of ice.
coalnewbie
 
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Re: Roof collapsing

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:15 pm

I heard a construction expert on the radio two weeks ago, saying if your house was built to code you should cease worrying about snow load. And now I think about it, I don't recall any house roofs around here collapsing, ever. But he didn’t say anything about riding rings with four feet of waterlogged snow on them. :o :( An ice rink roof did collapse a few years ago, about 30 minutes after the kids' hockey league finished playing and went home to supper.

There was an old country store a couple hundred yards from my house, abandoned for years. The roof and walls sagged so bad I was amazed it didn’t fall down in gentle summer breezes. And yet even the winter snows year after year didn’t bring it down. Eventually the owners knocked it down.
Last edited by rberq on Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roof collapsing

PostBy: tsb On: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:16 pm

Pump it full of heat. Coal or other wise. Pack it full of animals.
What ever it takes. We have barns collapsing all over around here
and we really don't have that much snow. They get old and
ignored and can't take this type of winter. More to come next week.
tsb
 
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Re: Roof collapsing

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Feb 18, 2014 11:30 pm

tsb wrote:We have barns collapsing all over around here ... They get old and ignored

Very sad, a lot of barns here also go down, but not just from snow. When I was a child big barns were everywhere. But people stopped farming and didn't keep them maintained, then once they began to deteriorate the cost to save them rose exponentially until it was just too late. :( Still many many small barns attached to older city houses, because so many families at one time kept a cow or two and a horse, and the small ones were still economically feasible to turn into garages and workshops.
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Re: Roof collapsing

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:58 am

The trouble is indoor riding arenas a have a span of at least 80' and are constructed by people on low bid as the business is run on a shoe string. Update on my post..... The Rogowski farm barn has gone last night. They were starting an organic restaurant in it to make ends meet and I bet they don't rebuild. Outfoxed Farm they are propping up and praying. Fancy ring but how did the build inspector allow that one - spindly.

Hmmm, I'm thinking a million BTU hot air (quick install) needs to be coal driven and started up ASAP. Yes tsb, I'm thinking the same thing... I'm starting with my 500,000 BTU kero driven Frostfighter in the morning but the cost will be too much to keep going. BTW, you can't get a dumpster for love or money as they are all out being filled from peoples drives. There is nowhere to put the snow now. Animals in the barn? Sure, horses do create a lot of mets, but we will not risk that one. The ring could be packed with husbands as they are expendable.

Answer: Over a surface area of one square foot, 4" inches of water (approximately 40 inches of snow on average) weighs about 20 pounds. 18000 sq ft= 216,000 sq inches x 20= 4,320,000 pounds= 2160 tons. Add an inch of rain Friday and then it freezes back to 20*. Some will run off but most will be adsorbed to form ice so add 20%. Of course, the weight of the snow can vary, depending on its water content when it first fell and how much rain it absorbed later. GULP. That my friends is why old farm buildings that are mostly pole structures are collapsing.
coalnewbie
 
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Re: Roof collapsing

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:05 am

coalnewbie wrote:The trouble is indoor riding arenas a have a span of at least 80' and are constructed by people on low bid as the business is run on a shoe string. Update on my post..... The Rogowski farm barn has gone last night. They were starting an organic restaurant in it to make ends meet and I bet they don't rebuild. Outfoxed Farm they are propping up and praying. Fancy ring but how did the build inspector allow that one - spindly.

Hmmm, I'm thinking a million BTU hot air (quick install) needs to be coal driven and started up ASAP. Yes tsb, I'm thinking the same thing... I'm starting with my 500,000 BTU kero driven Frostfighter in the morning but the cost will be too much to keep going. BTW, you can't get a dumpster for love or money as they are all out being filled from peoples drives. There is nowhere to put the snow now. Animals in the barn? Sure, horses do create a lot of mets, but we will not risk that one. The ring could be packed with husbands as they are expendable.

Answer: Over a surface area of one square foot, 4" inches of water (approximately 40 inches of snow on average) weighs about 20 pounds. 18000 sq ft= 216,000 sq inches x 20= 4,320,000 pounds= 2160 tons. Add an inch of rain Friday and then it freezes back to 20*. Some will run off but most will be adsorbed to form ice so add 20%. Of course, the weight of the snow can vary, depending on its water content when it first fell and how much rain it absorbed later. GULP. That my friends is why old farm buildings that are mostly pole structures are collapsing.



Would that still be Bush's fault or can we finally blame Obama. BTW I have our 220K Demo furnace if you think it would help. We can st it in the middle and run it 100% efficient if there is no living creatures inside.
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Re: Roof collapsing

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:39 am

Ha! 100% efficiency! AND it would help with any rodent problems you might have! toothy
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Re: Roof collapsing

PostBy: whistlenut On: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:44 am

It still might be possible to shovel off some of the roofs in danger, but a dozen guys and gals up there may make it worse if it is that unsteady. Trusses do have a live load rating, and it has probably being tested right now and more rain or snow won't help. The time to protect the structure is when the first buildup occurs. Sure hope no one gets hurt....this part of winter is scary......and the snow, rain and wind keep coming....8 degrees here this AM. Dave, you will have to make 6 more 'demo' machines......global warming.....sure Big Al....one horses arse, but you'll need more to melt that 'snow-cap!
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Re: Roof collapsing

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Wed Feb 19, 2014 12:36 pm

I didn't get a chance to clear the snow off the roof above my bedroom. The rest of the house is fairly melted off due to the nuclear reactor that is my coal stove by bedroom gets little to no heat so there is still a lot of snow up there. So, here's to hoping my house was built to code...LMAO fat chance in hell. My wife and I will be sleeping in the living room.

I'm also wondering, where the hell is all this rain supposed to go? There's no where for it to drain to. It's going to get real bad real fast when things start to flood. I'm sure my basement will be under water yet again since the sump pump drains to my yard which is buried in snow. It's supposed to rain for the next 2.5 days. Including today.

This weather absolutely BLOWS. I'm seriously considering a warmer climate. Screw this winter crap.

Also, what roof collapsed in Vernon? I didn't hear of anything.
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Re: Roof collapsing

PostBy: crazy4coal On: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:01 pm

Cleaned off the roof of the garage and 10x16 shed, 18-20" of snow in 4 layers with 1/2" of ice in between. First time in almost 20 yrs I had to clean off roofs and in 20 more I won't care! :D
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Re: Roof collapsing

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:53 pm

So C4C now I know more or less much much snow we had, I'm guessing well over 2 feet but you are close enough and let me know the impossibility of me removing it from an 18000 sq ft roof. So I'm going to take defeat like a man, sulk and get drunk.
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Re: Roof collapsing

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Wed Feb 19, 2014 10:49 pm

coalnewbie wrote:
Answer: Over a surface area of one square foot, 4" inches of water (approximately 40 inches of snow on average) weighs about 20 pounds. 18000 sq ft= 216,000 sq inches x 20= 4,320,000 pounds= 2160 tons. Add an inch of rain Friday and then it freezes back to 20*. Some will run off but most will be adsorbed to form ice so add 20%. Of course, the weight of the snow can vary, depending on its water content when it first fell and how much rain it absorbed later. GULP. That my friends is why old farm buildings that are mostly pole structures are collapsing.


Your math is a little off. 20lbs per square foot then you somehow convert to square inches.
20x18,000= 360,000lbs way less than your figure.

There are also 144sq inches in a square foot not 12

Modern housing is designed with either a 30lb or 50lb per square foot dead load on roofs depending on geographic area. I think this is why there are very few failures of modern structures.
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Re: Roof collapsing

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:52 pm

Wanna Bee wrote:
coalnewbie wrote:
Answer: Over a surface area of one square foot, 4" inches of water (approximately 40 inches of snow on average) weighs about 20 pounds. 18000 sq ft= 216,000 sq inches x 20= 4,320,000 pounds= 2160 tons. Add an inch of rain Friday and then it freezes back to 20*. Some will run off but most will be adsorbed to form ice so add 20%. Of course, the weight of the snow can vary, depending on its water content when it first fell and how much rain it absorbed later. GULP. That my friends is why old farm buildings that are mostly pole structures are collapsing.


Your math is a little off. 20lbs per square foot then you somehow convert to square inches.
20x18,000= 360,000lbs way less than your figure.

There are also 144sq inches in a square foot not 12

Modern housing is designed with either a 30lb or 50lb per square foot dead load on roofs depending on geographic area. I think this is why there are very few failures of modern structures.




Horse people. Everything is always bigger than they really are. :D :lol:
Flyer5
 
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Re: Roof collapsing

PostBy: Freddy On: Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:11 am

rberq wrote: people stopped farming and didn't keep them maintained,


We have a very old barn in town at the Wiswell Farm.... It stands very straight and level as it has my whole life. A couple of years ago I said to the owner "They sure knew how to build 'em back then". He said "That has little to do with it. It is true and level because each and every year on the Saturday before Memorial day we spend half a day leveling it. We jack and shim. It doesn't take much each year but if it's not done in 10 years it's too late".
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Re: Roof collapsing

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:42 am

Good info Freddy. This of course makes perfect sense but I know of no one who takes the trouble or have the skills to do this. The beautiful Dutch type barns of yesteryear are just about gone around here and this storm will take a lot of the survivors. I do know of one that was taken apart beam by beam and numbered. IT then resided in the proud new owners back years for ten years as he struggled to find some one to rebuild it. Of course, they needed to have skills and do it at a reasonable cost. He gave up and called the dumpster guys as he could not even sell the lumber on CL. It was a fabulous building and I was very tempted but the town inspector would have made it impossible even with the help of the town historian.
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