What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

PostBy: JonsNew2Coal On: Thu Feb 20, 2014 9:04 pm

If power to my wood/coal boiler circulating pumps is lost for an extended period of time do I need to worry about damaging the stove or plumbing if I just keep the fire burning??? Must I either extinguish the coal fire with sand or go through the hastle of connecting my portable generator to power the pumps?

Thanks for a great community!!!
JonsNew2Coal
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Buderus G201 Logano
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Stove and Nut

Re: What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

PostBy: Freddy On: Fri Feb 21, 2014 5:36 am

Generally speaking, when a coal boiler loses power it just slowly cools down & goes out by itself. It would be a very rare, (near impossible?) event to have a disaster just because you lost power. Of course if you want/need to keep heating your home, yes, you'll need a generator.
Freddy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 130 (pea)
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Reading piece o' junk in the barn (rice)
Coal Size/Type: Pea size, Superior, deep mined

Re: What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

PostBy: Lightning On: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:11 am

What about the case of a manually controlled hand fed boiler? Wouldn't the water just sit in the cavity and boil? Or would some gravity circulation prevent that??
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

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Re: What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Fri Feb 21, 2014 7:39 am

Assuming you have flow control valves you can open them up and get some heat into the house. ;) I'd have to guess you need a pretty straight forward loop for it to work well.

As far as the fire don't be concerned about it, actually seems like that wouldn't be anything out of normal operation.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

PostBy: GaryFerg On: Fri Feb 21, 2014 10:51 am

I dont know about that I have lost power or the circulator and the boiler ran away with no way to get rid of the heat. This makes me wonder if my hand feed is not sealed properly?
GaryFerg
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Energy King boiler
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harmon TLC 2000
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: oil

Re: What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

PostBy: Akcoal On: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:17 pm

my handfed, fan induced boiler will automatically shut air off to fire with power outage. but the water in the boiler will quickly turn to steam if not kept circulating. you may want to check on a battery inverter backup. mine will only run my 2 circ pumps for a half hour or so but allow water to cool off some. i use one like people use for backup on computers, but know there are a few better options available
Akcoal
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Homemade boiler

Re: What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

PostBy: top top On: Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:48 pm

I used to know a guy that ran his boiler without circulating pumps. He used wood, but that shouldn't make any difference. He had a historic home, 5,000 sf uninsulated stone and a ton of single pane windows. Three story, plus basement. The water would gravity feed to the radiators. He said he adjusted the valves in the basement twice per year. Probably wouldn't work in a single story house.
top top
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Alaska
Stove/Furnace Model: Kodiac Hand Fired with hopper.

Re: What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

PostBy: Yanche On: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:03 pm

Is your wood/coal hand fed boiler a pressurized hydronic system? I ask this because most codes require outdoor wood fired boilers to be unpressurized, i.e. open to the atmosphere.

My solution would be to pressurize the system AND use a very, very large expansion tank. Here's the concept. Heated water expands in volume. There needs to be a place for that water to go. That's the expansion tank. Properly sized you don't need to worry about a power failure. Here's how to size the tank. (1) Assume the boiler is cold, (2) Assume the boiler water is hot, really really hot the hottest it can possibly get with a full fuel load and lots of draft, (3) Assume all that hot water stays in the boiler, i.e. no working circulator. Now determine the increase in boiler water volume between (1) & (2). Calculate the expansion tank needed such that the pressure does not rise greater than 5 psi below the pop off pressure on the safety relief valve. The benefit of such a system is there is no water loss. When it cools or power returns it recovers automatically. You must use metal piping suitable for the high temperatures. On my coal boiler I frequently have 240 deg boiler water, after a full burn and the circulator pump stops.
Yanche
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Alternate Heating Systems S-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea

Re: What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

PostBy: SMITTY On: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:12 pm

Yanche wrote: ......... You must use metal piping suitable for the high temperatures. ..........

Not to derail this topic, but I wondered why my cheap plumbing was stamped, "180° max.temp". I don't see the danger ....

Is it because it's so thin that wild temperature swings will split it open?
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

PostBy: SWPaDon On: Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:18 pm

OK..............Yanche and SMITTY................I think you guys might be on the wrong thread, or right thread...........or BOTH..............KUDO's to SMITTY: omg now what am i going to do?
SWPaDon
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1600M
Coal Size/Type: Bituminous. Labeled as 'Big Vein', about the size of acorns. Makes a lot of ash, but heats well and lasts longer than my previous coal.

Re: What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

PostBy: blrman07 On: Mon Feb 24, 2014 4:18 am

SMITTY wrote:
Yanche wrote: ......... You must use metal piping suitable for the high temperatures. ..........

Not to derail this topic, but I wondered why my cheap plumbing was stamped, "180° max.temp". I don't see the danger ....

Is it because it's so thin that wild temperature swings will split it open?


You must be talking about "plastic" pipe. At temperatures in excess of 180 degrees F the plasticizer in the plastic pipe starts to leach out. When that happens it can no longer hold it's shape at those temperatures, deforms, and then ruptures. If it's metal piping the 180 degree means that is the maximum radius bend that it can do without cracking or breaking.

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland, Pa.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, using a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly stove in the church
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

PostBy: Sting On: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:05 am

If your worried - do like the wood boiler guys do and build a generous sized gravity flow dump zone
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

PostBy: Lightning On: Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:53 am

Sting wrote:If your worried - do like the wood boiler guys do and build a generous sized gravity flow dump zone


There's the answer I was looking for... :)
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

PostBy: ddahlgren On: Mon Mar 03, 2014 1:28 pm

Open the zone valves I have yet to see you can not do manually and if there are flow check valves open those as well. You will be surprised how well it might work as it becomes like a hand fed radiant stove. It might take a while to get going but once it does it will work just fine. The beauty is the hotter the water gets the faster it will circulate so pretty much self compensating. The reason for the zone valves etc. is to reduce the amount of heat because residential oil burners are fixed firing rate. A coal stove that you can adjust the heat input does not really need any of it though you may need some valves to balance the zones. When I worked for a heating company ages ago if for some reason I did not have a circulator that is what I did and never had a real problem other than the system would overheat the house and you had to turn off the switch for the furnace every now and then.
ddahlgren
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: What if I lose power to circulating pumps?

PostBy: BPatrick On: Fri Mar 07, 2014 4:35 pm

getting a backup generator solves this problem otherwise, if you lose power for any length of time, you cannot heat your house.
BPatrick
 
Baseburners & Antiques: 2 Crawford 40 Baseheaters
Coal Size/Type: Stove Coal
Other Heating: Herald Oak No. 18

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