Sulfur Smell

 
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Vampiro
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Post by Vampiro » Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 2:51 pm

Hi all,

Well, I hooked up the boiler, and ran the pipes and connections as per the manual. The ash cone was sealed up, I taped around the auger tube and the flap, and have done everything I could to make sure all is air tight. I have a co detector by the boiler, and on every level of the house. Safety is paramount to me.

I lit paper, to check where smoke was coming from. It comes out of the front flap, and came out the auger cover, but I taped it up.

I have a manometer. My chimney pulls between .03 and .04 max with a low of .02 at idle. This is measured from the barometric damper. I have a clay circular chimney that goes up around 28' or so, and even added an extension with a cap. I sealed the clean out door, and taped around the door as well.

The first time I smelled it, I shut down the boiler. The co indicator indicated 0. I added the chimney extension, and re sealed the chimney with furnace cement. The draft did improve during this last round. So I decided to try again. Still a smell, so again I shut it down.

When I stick my hand inside the boiler while it is off, I could feel the air being drawn from the fire chamber. I stuck the manometer by the exhaust hole in the back of the fire chamber and around it to measure over fire draft. The reading is very slight. I feel it should be at least .01 to .02. There is around a 9' run of exhaust pipe to the chimney breech and it pitches upward. The inside diameter of the clay lined chimney is almost 8". Even the manual says that the length to the chimney shouldn't matter.

The boiler is clean, there is no blockage in the cone, or flue, nor the chimney. I was thinking of running 6" triple wall up through the roof. But before wasting any more money, I have to make sure it is going to work, and I don't have to worry about any gases leaking into the house. That just shouldn't be. I've worked with large hand fired coal boilers, and never had a smell in the boiler room when the fire was roaring or banked. So there is no "there may be a little smell"... There shouldn't be at all.

So it seems to me the run might be too long, and the draft isn't sufficient enough. If I run the dura vent it, the pipe can be located right near the boiler, with a tee and one elbow. The only thing is, will 6" work with the AA-260? Or do I have to use 6" and then go to 8"? Dura vent says the chimney should match the outlet, so that would be 6".

I'm at a loss, and would really like to have my boiler back in action, and not wind up rigging it out of the basement. Thanks for all your help through this install all. :)


 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 2:58 pm

Did you clean out the channel that runs from the underside of the cyclonic separator cone housing and down into the swirl chamber?

 
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Vampiro
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Post by Vampiro » Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 3:09 pm

lsayre wrote:Did you clean out the channel that runs from the underside of the cyclonic separator cone housing and down into the swirl chamber?
Do you mean near the top where the flue pipe connects and there is that gap where exhaust gases come out? Yes. And the bottom of the cone was sealed with furnace cement.

 
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lsayre
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Post by lsayre » Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 3:21 pm

Vampiro wrote:
lsayre wrote:Did you clean out the channel that runs from the underside of the cyclonic separator cone housing and down into the swirl chamber?
Do you mean near the top where the flue pipe connects and there is that gap where exhaust gases come out? Yes. And the bottom of the cone was sealed with furnace cement.
Right where the flue pipe connects to the boiler there is a gasketed flange that after you unbolt it you can lift out the flue tube assembly that is connected to the flange and sits down into the boiler just above the cyclone funnel. Then after this flanged and gasketed tube has been removed you will see a small square or rectangular opening that had been hidden behind it and is perhaps 8" down and roughly 1.5" to 2" in size. That is the opening of a channel that runs clear down into the main swirl chamber at the heart of the boiler. Force a wire and then a boiler brush through the channel until it breaks free and enters the swirl chamber. You will know when this has been accomplished because the noticeable resistance of the channel to the brush will drop as the brush falls freely into the swirl chamber, and at this juncture you will be perhaps 10" to a foot into the channel with the brush. Then work the brush all the way out and then in again, going back and forth a few times. Then reassemble and see if it runs like a champ again. If you get a positive slamming shut of the port cover flapper door at the front of the boiler when the fan comes on this is a good indication that the channel is clean. Contra to this, if your port flapper cover door is not drawing (sucking) in promptly and snugly when the fan comes on, this is a good indicator that the channel is becoming plugged up.
Last edited by lsayre on Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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whistlenut
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Post by whistlenut » Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 3:32 pm

Larry, I think this machine is new to being fired, and am quite sure Vampiro would have checked everything possible. I am wondering about the draft and whether a draft inducer fan would be worth a try. Every installation is just different enough to make me wonder if a stronger 'pull might be necessary......
Last edited by whistlenut on Sun. Feb. 23, 2014 5:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 3:35 pm

There is only one place that matters to check draft and that is over the fire with the combustion blower on. Drill a hole or if there is an inspection port, crack it open and hold a match near it. It should pull the flame in. Hold your finger there and see if it burns; it should not.

If you want accurate quantitative readings it has to be done through a hole close to the size of the manometer probe. One hole close to the boiler breech and one over the fire.

Measure stack temperature. Surface of pipe within one foot of breech. Seems like your chimney should be good but you did not mention if it was outside or inside.

 
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Vampiro
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Post by Vampiro » Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 4:08 pm

As soon as I get home I'll pul the tube out again and check that. The flapper pulls shut when the fan turns on, unless there is a nearly empty fire chamber.

When I lit the boiler the other day, as I mentioned about the smoke and all, that should have not happened. Because that would mean exhaust gases would be leaking at idle instead of the smoke from the paper and whatnot. That would also mean there would be leaks out of the flapper too when idle. So over fire air is just as important at idle as it is when firing as the gases need to be removed at all times.

So we shall see what happens when I get home. Does anyone know if I could use the 6" flue pipe all the way up? I already have some sections. Would need to buy a few more.

As for my current chimney, it is inside the building, and brick all the way up. There is one side exposed on the exterior, but there is at least a layer or two of brick before the clay liner. I have an old closed off air shaft I could use to run the stainless dura vent which is right near the 260.

Thanks all for the help :D


 
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Post by CoalHeat » Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 6:23 pm

Make sure you have enough make-up air coming in. Open a window near the boiler and see if your draft increases.

With that boiler, as with any other stoker unit, you have a blower running, the draft is going to be affected by that. If the combustion chamber or breech goes positive then gases will be forced out anywhere there is an opening. If the construction of the chimney cannot provide enough draft then go with a draft inducer with a speed control. A masonry chimney is far superior to a metal one.

Can you adjust the air flow on an AA like I can on my EFM?

 
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Post by Rob R. » Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 6:40 pm

Wood'nCoal wrote:Can you adjust the air flow on an AA like I can on my EFM?
No.

How many elbows are in the flue pipe? Can you post a picture of the smoke pipe?

Something isn't right here, the fan on an AA should make the combustion chamber negative. I suspect the problem lies with the smoke pipe.

 
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Post by CoalHeat » Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 6:44 pm

Good point. Also I was thinking how long did the boiler fire? Long enough to insure the chimney was thoroughly warmed up?

 
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Vampiro
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Post by Vampiro » Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 7:53 pm

Just got back. Removed the ash cone and all is clear. Measured the draft inside the flue pipe right as it goes into the boiler. It measured about .005 with a little jump here or there to .01 Probably not enough to pull the gases out from the fire pot while idle. I'll post some pics as soon as I can. This sucks.

 
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Vampiro
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Post by Vampiro » Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 8:28 pm

Here are some photos. I did the 6" to 8" as per the manual. And the flue pipe is pitched. There is only one elbow coming off of the boiler, and then it goes straight into the breeching and up the chimney. Not sure why the chimney pulls poorly. It is in good shape.

Before this I had run 6" pipe all the way to the chimney and even put an elbow in there. Didn't help. So the only other time it pulled like now was with the 6" straight run. The only problem was that I hadn't closed off half the tee opening for baro and it would blow out of the Baro area. When that happened I capped the Baro off completely. I made sure to do the 6 to 8 as per the drawing add an extra inch or so. That helped, but I wound up capping the baro to see what the draft would be.

I tried opening the window, and even the door. No big help at all. I also made a fresh air inlet that I made to go directly over the boiler to provide fresh air intake at all times.

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Post by Rob R. » Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 8:59 pm

Have these trials been done with the boiler up to temperature and a proper stack temperature?

 
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Vampiro
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Post by Vampiro » Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 10:39 pm

Yes. I had the boiler running and steaming before. But after this light off, when I again smelled the smell, I shut down the boiler. The byproducts of combustion should be discharged at all times. It is getting rather tiresome. I've waited so long to get the boiler going and to have these issues sucks. :( .

I really don't want to put any more money into this project. Although I may just run new dura vent class a out the wall and out the side of the building. The only other option would be a chimney liner.

 
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Post by franco b » Sat. Feb. 22, 2014 10:54 pm

Why don't you take down the smoke pipe and check to see if the thimble or the smoke pipe might have been inserted too far into the chimney? Light a piece of paper right at the open chimney and see if the flame pulls up.


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