Dumb On BTUs

Re: Dumb On BTUs

PostBy: Koko On: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:21 pm

michaelanthony,
Actually I am not against spending the money on a coal stove, I grew up with an Iron Fireman stoker, what a machine, ran 24/7 never needed a repair from 1939 to 1965 - don't make them like that any more ! ! ! I real enjoy having a coal stove, but I am recently retired and doing some traveling so I can't cut the oil line just yet :) :) :). I purchased this little stove because at the time it was the only one that would work for my fireplace application. This year I saw the Keystoker HF insert which was small enough to fit my fireplace and I think would produce more heat thereby saving on my $4.09 a gallon oil. Hopefully I receive some positive responses on thIs change of stoves. Thanks, Kevin.
Koko
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Morso
Other Heating: Oil

Re: Dumb On BTUs

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:34 pm

I'd install the biggest insert you can. They can be idled down well. Do it right the first time and you'll kick yourself for waiting so long. :D
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Dumb On BTUs

PostBy: Koko On: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:48 pm

Carbon12,
Exactly how I am thinking, big is better. I would much rather have a low to medium burn then a blasting coal stove. Thanks.
Koko
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Morso
Other Heating: Oil

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Re: Dumb On BTUs

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:56 pm

With a stoker you can have a mild to wild burn and everything in between.
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Dumb On BTUs

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:57 pm

Those two inserts overlap over most of their firing ranges.
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Dumb On BTUs

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:04 pm

[quote="Koko"]Isayre,
Your not saying that the 30K vs 90K stoves, both burning at 400 degrees would be producing the same amount of heat output ? I justed assumed that if I were burning 5 lbs of coal vs 45 lbs of coal that the heat output would be greater ? Maybe I should just stick with the small 30K stove ? It is great to get everyone's opinion before making a purchase, which may be just a waste of money ! I'd rather be penny wise than pound foolish. Thanks all. Kevin.[/quote]


Sorry if I took this the wrong way. This sounded like you wanted to be conservative in your decision. Good luck in your decision.
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly coat rack
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Dumb On BTUs

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:54 pm

Oil boiler -baseboard hot water :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: COAL BOILER -hook to the oil boiler ,save lots of oil & have oil backup when away from the house. Simple ,even heat throughout the whole house. :D
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Dumb On BTUs

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:01 pm

Koko wrote: I can crank the stove up to 600 degrees and then the room will maintain 69 but you need to tend the stove every 6 hours
There’s lots of room for error between what you said and what I’m going to say, but: If your stove holds 5 pounds of coal, and you are tending it every 6 hours, then you are burning at most 4 pounds in 6 hours, or 2/3 pound per hour. That’s about 8,000 BTU per hour in fuel. Adjust that by 65% efficiency, and you are heating with about 5,200 BTU per hour. Now, that is inadequate, so let’s make a wild guesstimate that you need 20,000 BTU per hour.

Koko wrote:… I am recently retired and doing some traveling so I can't cut the oil line just yet
No, I think Lee was speaking tongue-in-cheek. Even if you produce ALL your heat with coal, you will want to keep the oil for when you travel, or when you get the flu or break a leg and can’t haul coal, and so on.

Koko wrote:Exactly how I am thinking, big is better.

Be careful. The Keystoker HF inserts are NOT stoker stoves, and cannot be dialed back to as low a burn rate as the stokers. If my wild-ass guess above is accurate, and you truly need at most 20,000 BTU per hour, you would be running a 90K stove near its minimum in the coldest weather. And in warmer weather you would cook your family. Just for comparison, my kitchen/dining/bath total 400 square feet pretty well insulated. They are heated by a 10,000 BTU propane unit which RARELY has to be turned up to its maximum – only when the outside temperature is minus 20. You don’t say where you live, but I’m betting Maine is colder. I think you really need to do two things before you conclude that bigger is better: (1) do a careful heat-loss calculation to determine your needs, and (2) figure out how to get the heat distributed to all the rooms. I certainly don't mean that you should stay with your Morso - frankly, it sounds awful due to the short burn time. But don't jump from the icebox into the oven. :)
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Dumb On BTUs

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:06 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:Oil boiler -baseboard hot water :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: COAL BOILER -hook to the oil boiler ,save lots of oil & have oil backup when away from the house. Simple ,even heat throughout the whole house. :D

Yep. That's the right way to do it, if money is not a problem.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Dumb On BTUs

PostBy: Koko On: Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:46 pm

rberg,
Interesting response. First, I had said that when I have the stove running at 600 degrees I need to tend it every 6 hours. What I found interesting was your analysis 2/3 lbs per hour which is about 8000 BTUs per hours @ 65% efficiency = 5200 BTUs per hr. That's about the output of a 10 foot long section of hot water baseboard. I'll have to work on the heat lost chart to determine my actual heating requirement. Appreciate all your input.
Koko
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Morso
Other Heating: Oil

Re: Dumb On BTUs

PostBy: Koko On: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:39 pm

Isayre,
The heat loss chart calculated approximately 32,000 BTUs loss per hour. Would this mean I would need a stove rated at more than 32,000 BTUs - probably better to go higher since these BTUs rating are at maximum output/input ? Chart was very helpful in identifying requirements.
Koko
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Morso
Other Heating: Oil

Re: Dumb On BTUs

PostBy: lsayre On: Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:55 pm

Koko wrote:Isayre,
The heat loss chart calculated approximately 32,000 BTUs loss per hour. Would this mean I would need a stove rated at more than 32,000 BTUs - probably better to go higher since these BTUs rating are at maximum output/input ? Chart was very helpful in identifying requirements.


You will only need 32,000 output BTU's on a scant few of the very coldest nights of a really cold winter (like this one). To achieve that would require a stove which can burn 3.5 lbs. of coal per hour at 75% efficiency. On a sustained basis that's 84 lbs. per day. it takes a big stove to burn 84 lbs. of coal per day. My guess would be that a stove in the firebox size class of at least the DS-1400 would be required to do it. A DS-1500 would certainly do it.

I'm of the opinion that American made coal stoves are over rated by about 50%, so divide their rated BTU capacity by 2 to get a more honest picture of their input (potential to burn coal). Then multiply that by 0.75 to account for efficiency.

Working this backwards from 32,000 BTU's I get:

32000 /0.75 = 42,667

42,667 x 2 = 85,334

An anthracite coal stove rated at about 85,000 BTU's should satisfy your need for 32,000 output BTU's. Better yet, a firebox with about 227 square inches of surface area inside the firebricks is required for 85,000 BTU's. 15" x 15" = 225 square inches. Close enough.

DS-1400 = 208 square inches
DS-1500 = 256 square inches
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (It has been fixed!)

Re: Dumb On BTUs

PostBy: Koko On: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:19 pm

Isayre,
Base on these calculation the Keystoker HF 90K insert should work. This insert has a firebox measurement of 18 1/2" X 14 1/2" which should provide sufficient heat output. Right now I am not in the position to jump into a stoker. BTW I am located in the Mid Hudson Valley of NY state and if all these costs here keep rising I may find myself in the state of Florida - no need for stoves or stokers :) :) :). Your input has been very helpful, thanks.
Koko
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Morso
Other Heating: Oil

Re: Dumb On BTUs

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:20 pm

Koko wrote:... 5200 BTUs per hr. That's about the output of a 10 foot long section of hot water baseboard.

Koko wrote:The heat loss chart calculated approximately 32,000 BTUs loss per hour.

To cross-check the heat-loss calculations: if 10 feet of HW baseboard is 5,200 BTU, and your house requires 32,000 BTU, does your house have about 60 feet of baseboard, and does that keep you comfortable when heating only with oil?
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Dumb On BTUs

PostBy: Koko On: Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:27 pm

Isayre,
Just checked the baseboard measurement for the 1st floor - came up with 64 running feet - sounds like we are right on the mark - 85K - 90K is probably very close to the correct BTUs required.
Koko
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Morso
Other Heating: Oil

Visit Lehigh Anthracite