If your coal stoker had a leak?

If your coal stoker had a leak?

PostBy: Kubota2007 On: Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:43 pm

Just thinking, what if you suspected a door leaking seal or chimney pipe, is there a instrument that will be able to find the leak. In the auto/truck repair there are tools to locate a bad head gasket,intake manifold gasket, also air conditioner leaking. What is available for checking heating systems? Is there things to look for with out having a tool for this.
Kubota2007
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Magmun 20yrs old,Harmon Super Mag just installed.
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Electric,

Re: If your coal stoker had a leak?

PostBy: Lightning On: Sun Mar 02, 2014 1:47 pm

Most tools for this application are crude lol. Do a dollar bill test on door seals. Use an incense for pipe joints and other. Look for smoke to be drawn in.. :D
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: If your coal stoker had a leak?

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:07 pm

Those leaks are vacuum into stove or pipe, as it's negative pressure...not positive pressure, where it would be passing out through bad fitting joints. ;)
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

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Re: If your coal stoker had a leak?

PostBy: Kubota2007 On: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:18 pm

McGiever wrote:Those leaks are vacuum into stove or pipe, as it's negative pressure...not positive pressure, where it would be passing out through bad fitting joints. ;)


I understand with the draft from Chimney there is a vacuum, where does the deadly gas excape from. Why are door and other seals important, are they inplace to prevent air entering the stoker.
Kubota2007
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Magmun 20yrs old,Harmon Super Mag just installed.
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Electric,

Re: If your coal stoker had a leak?

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:46 pm

Kubota2007 wrote:
McGiever wrote:Those leaks are vacuum into stove or pipe, as it's negative pressure...not positive pressure, where it would be passing out through bad fitting joints. ;)


I understand with the draft from Chimney there is a vacuum, where does the deadly gas excape from. Why are door and other seals important, are they inplace to prevent air entering the stoker.


Generally a stovepipe/chimney restriction causes a backup...then with more gases generated than can be expelled the stove will spill gases out any crack or joint that is not gas tight.

Doors need good seals to have the best control over the rate of heat output by controlling combustion rate..
Last edited by McGiever on Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: If your coal stoker had a leak?

PostBy: Kubota2007 On: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:47 pm

Understand, Thanks!
Kubota2007
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Magmun 20yrs old,Harmon Super Mag just installed.
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Electric,

Re: If your coal stoker had a leak?

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:03 pm

No matter how good the door seals are stokers have a huge area for a leak if draft is not properly maintained. The hopper. A first indicator of poor draft is the hopper lid sweating.
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: If your coal stoker had a leak?

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:51 pm

Flyer5 wrote:............. The hopper. A first indicator of poor draft is the hopper lid sweating.



Yep noticed that yesterday on the Hyfire II in the garage. I had been hearing from the minions here that the garage was stinking of a sulfur smell. I would not smell it at night when I would get home. But yesterday morning, I piuled the hopper lid and the water was just dripping off it.


So today, I did the redneck/Russian method to clean the short chimney. I didn't feel like pulling the whole interior pipe down to clean it. So I first removed the ash pan and shoveled out he fly ash in the pipe right as it exits the stove and immediately hits the 90* elbow. The pipe then goes vertical for about 10' before another 90* to go out through the building. In the 10' section is the baro.

So after doing the lower section of pipe, I fired up the gas powered leaf blower and shoved it into the baro with the flared end facing up and out the pipe. Had the son in law outside watching. He said a lot of fly ash came out the chimney. Kept doing it until the ash stopped. Took all of about 5 minutes. Maybe I should put a manometer on it but this is only in the garage to keep the pipes from freezing and to keep the 2 cats warm.

Issue really seemed to be having both burners going when it gets warmer outside. Just checked a while ago and with 1 burner going, the temp is stable at 55*, the FR was 11 and the lid cover was dry.



Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: If your coal stoker had a leak?

PostBy: RS7 On: Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:07 am

I have the Alaska 140, daul paddle and mine started doing this earlier this week, but I don't get the sulfur smell, only sweating on the lid. First time it has done this for me. I did have the hoper off last weekend to fix the seals where the hopper and computation fan come together. Do u think this may be my issue, I need to vac out flue pipe? If not what do you think I ahould do? I thought it was just because my coal was wet. Thanks
RS7
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska model 140
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Oil backup

Re: If your coal stoker had a leak?

PostBy: blrman07 On: Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:24 am

Moisture on the lid is one of the first indicators that your gas passage is getting restricted. If you ever see that, shut down and cleanout.

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pa.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, reblacking a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: If your coal stoker had a leak?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:06 am

Rick 386 wrote:and immediately hits the 90* elbow. The pipe then goes vertical for about 10' before another 90* to go out through the building.


Replace them with T's for easy access. I never take the pipes off our boiler, just open the T and use a shop vac. Place so you the capped end gives you access to the horizontal run, as far as the vertical runs any fly ash in there should come down with some taps on them. Use a mirror to check for obstructions if you're worried about it.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: If your coal stoker had a leak?

PostBy: titleist1 On: Mon Mar 03, 2014 9:30 am

RS7 wrote:Do u think this may be my issue, I need to vac out flue pipe? If not what do you think I should do? I thought it was just because my coal was wet.


First thing to do is keep an eye on your CO monitor. Mine will record the high level which can be seen when you push a button. Even if the current reading is 0 if it was higher than that it will display when the button is pushed. Second thing is to check you manometer reading and see what your draft is now compared to its normal reading when pipes & stove are clean. If you don't have one seriously consider getting one as it can be used as an early warning.

Clean out the flue pipes and note how much fly ash is there compared with how many tons you have burned since the last cleaning. Cleaning should also be done by tonnage burned not just time passed since the last cleaning. That will help you determine the correct schedule for future cleanings. Clean the grate holes while you are at it and also clean the area under the grate. Double check the maintenance you mentioned doing to make sure everything is seated properly on their gaskets.

If your flue pipe draft reading is good and the firebox is not pressurized and your coal isn't burning back into the hopper then verify it is the coal it by drying the coal in a tote before loading it into the hopper. All the while carefully watching the CO monitors!
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: If your coal stoker had a leak?

PostBy: RS7 On: Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:39 am

Titelistone,

Good post. I just finished cleaning my flue pipe and there was quit a bit of ash built up in there. I also have a barometric damper and it was shut. Whenever I peak at the damper, it usually is reading 0.04 so with the flue being restricted it makes sense why damper was shut.

Currently I have a 90 coming from the stove and going (up) towards the thimble. I need to replace that with a "T" so it makes cleaning easier. If I replace with a T, I wouldn't need to worry about flumes being leaked out the bottom of that right, since there would still be a negative pressure in the flue pipe?
RS7
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Alaska model 140
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Oil backup

Re: If your coal stoker had a leak?

PostBy: titleist1 On: Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:59 am

With a cap on the T no fumes will come out.

If you are able, try to set up your flue pipe with T's instead of 90's so you can snake a shop vac wand into the horizontals through them. It makes it easy to do in season clean outs without shutting all the way down. I just turn down the 'stat so the stoker goes into idle mode and wait for the flue pipe temp to fall to around 100*. I get the shop vac wand in there for about 1 minute and its clean and ready for another 1-1/2 tons of coal to be burned before repeating the process.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: If your coal stoker had a leak?

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Mon Mar 03, 2014 6:03 pm

Richard S. wrote:......

Replace them with T's for easy access. I never take the pipes off our boiler, just open the T and use a shop vac.



Yah I know I could do that. The bottom elbow is not a problem as it is hooked directly to the unit. My shop vac can get to it after I remove the ash pan.

But I always wanted to do the leaf blower thing after watching the Russian video !!!!!!

My only problem was that I couldn't watch it from the outside as I was holding the leaf blower. Next time I'll get the son in law to operate the leaf blower and I'll stand outside. Of course I will have to take video.........



Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Visit Lehigh Anthracite