Getting into the coal business

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Re: Getting into the coal business

PostBy: Breakerboy On: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:39 am

whistlenut wrote:Son, I am only trying to politely tell you to take off the blinders, this is a serious business. I would prefer that you are very successful, and along with that, humility might rub off once in a while.

I've been around long enough to know the deal, but that and a couple bucks will buy you a cup most anywhere. Best wishes, and price it up for me, also.


I did not get your PM of coal u prefer
Breakerboy
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman DVC 500
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Keystoker Oil Boiler Cast iron Standing Radiators

Re: Getting into the coal business

PostBy: Breakerboy On: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:53 am

Another example here : Why do people look for others to split a TT load of coal with them 3 or 4 ways ??? To obviously save money by buying in bulk directly from breaker .. They surely could buy coal from dealers in there area ... But they want to avoid dealers mark up and save that money ... Now if they unloaded that TT load of bagged in a garage and sold it all instead of burning it .. Do you think they would turn a profit ??? They obviously got it cheaper that way ..
Breakerboy
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman DVC 500
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Re: Getting into the coal business

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:54 am

Wanna Bee ,that cube idea should be a winner for the small to average household use,not sure how it would work for the 10+ ton users . Just need a truck with an extendable boom crane To lift off of the truck & set on the ground.Actually sounds like a very good idea if it can all be put together.
windyhill4.2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Other Heating: Oaktree OWB 600K

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Re: Getting into the coal business

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:07 am

The problem is that there are simply not enough customers within any given area to justify a depot. Within my area of CT. and within 30 miles there is only one traditional coal yard with scale and coal bunkers for loose coal. They also sell wood pellets. All the rest are primarily wood pellet sellers with bagged coal as a sideline; no bulk.

The difference between K Mart going bankrupt and Walmart showing a profit was the superior shipping system of Walmart. I don't see how you are going to transport more efficiently than what is done now. Customers are just too spread out.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Getting into the coal business

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:47 am

windyhill4.2 wrote:Wanna Bee ,that cube idea should be a winner for the small to average household use,not sure how it would work for the 10+ ton users . Just need a truck with an extendable boom crane To lift off of the truck & set on the ground.Actually sounds like a very good idea if it can all be put together.


The same truck used for delivery concrete block would be perfect for deliveries. Rated to carry the weight and I'm sure you can get one cheap.

You could also make the CUBE a bit taller...say two and a half ton per delivery. Anyone that burns more than that every couple months takes burning coal a bit more seriously. They may however need your services in an Emergency. :D

As far as how spread out the coal burning community is in the north...
May be a slow start, but making coal more readily available will also bring In more people willing to give it a try. I know of FIVE people that are adding a coal stove as a PRIMARY means of heating their home after getting clobbered by big oil this year. None of them have ever burned coal or even wood before. One added a pellet stove last year but had huge issues finding fuel for it :( They would be perfect to present this supply idea to. None of them have an existing coal bin.

You could even sell the pre built coal bins, coal stoves too. That would increase your customer base. Good marketing campaign this time of year while people are still feeling the sting of their utility bills.

I know it would work down here in coal country. Might be a home run in the north...might not.
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Getting into the coal business

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:03 pm

Same concept could be done with bags on skids for those preferring bags,same truck would work for skids & bins,no more torn up lawns trying to get to coal bins,just back in driveway,set skid/bin on drive or in lawn,pull onto the road & next stop. Quick too,keeps truck rolling,means more customers served per day,very little time spent unloading equals more profit. With the proper truck & GCWR you could pull a good sized trailer for the longer hauls & be able to haul nearly as much as a semi. Size of bin/skid would only be limited by the boom crane weight lifting capacity... 12,000 # crane could easily handle 5 ton bin,a 1 seasons supply for many customers.
windyhill4.2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Other Heating: Oaktree OWB 600K

Re: Getting into the coal business

PostBy: mr1precision On: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:15 pm

Breaker Boy,
I used a bit more coal this year than I thought I'd use. I might be interested in a full load of pea if you get set-up. I bought 22.5 tons of bagged Kimmel the last time and would rather not use it again. The only reason I went with Kimmel was they were very easy to buy from. I was thinking I might buy loose this time. I could take more and sell some off too. Let me know if you are interested in doing something. Also I may know someone that would be able to recieve RR shipments too. Good Luck!
mr1precision
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson AA-130

Re: Getting into the coal business

PostBy: whistlenut On: Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:35 pm

Windyhill, easy on that crane capacity estimate. No F***ing way will a 12 ton unit pick a 5 ton bin. I operated 15 and 18 ton truck mounted cranes in the concrete business for 30 years and if it were possible, it would be straight up, on the truck bed, not a ten food radius of the boom center......and since the booms are mounted in the center of whatever you use, it would still not be able to go anywhere useful. A one ton bin would be MUCH safer.

Block and prefab cranes will allow some extension due to configuration, still limited radius.
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
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Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
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Re: Getting into the coal business

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Tue Mar 11, 2014 3:11 pm

Bulk cost less than bagged. That was the reason behind the special bins. Pass bulk coal savings along to everyone.

If some needs more than two tons they could always have multiple small bins delivered.
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Getting into the coal business

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:05 pm

If I knew that I could sell a TT load @$550 a ton...
I would get my TT CDL...
That would be 550-180=370, 370*26=9620, 9620-800-400=8420...
$8420... 8-)
My other example was with $130 ton markup over cost on a 26 ton load...
Most people pay $300-$320 ton bagged in the northeast...
That would be $7.50 to $8 on a 40# bag
$6 a 40# bag is $240 a ton...
$7 a 40# bag is $280 a ton...
$9 a 40# bag is $360 a ton...
$12 a 40# bag is $480 ton...
They do get $12 on Marthas Vineyard...
$13.75 a 40# bag is $550 a ton...
If ya race to the bottom for price you can not give great customer service... ;)
Give great customer service and you will make a reasonable profit...
I refuse to get into a 'I can do it cheaper than him' position in my own business...
I much rather be in the 'I can provide superior service and knowlege than them' position...
Make a reasonable living...
Keep the nice customers and let the mean ones go...
If you want the cheapest be my guest...
That said I will source my own TT load and reap all the benefits...
Because I want to save the most money...
And I know people, who know people... ;)
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
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Re: Getting into the coal business

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:01 am

What happened :?: 22 days of silence,has the reality of starting & running a successful coal business burst the dream bubble ? did the 2 of you get in a fight over who had the idea first ? are you putting business plans together & have no time for up dates ? maybe the 2 of you are busy merging both ideas into 1 big plan & have no time to update ? I've been hanging on to the edge of this cliff way too long ,about to give up (i hate cliff hangers/stories with no end) fill in the next or last chapter . :secret: :nice: :yearight:
windyhill4.2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Other Heating: Oaktree OWB 600K

Re: Getting into the coal business

PostBy: tjnamtiw On: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:07 am

Breakerboy wrote:
whistlenut wrote:Nobody would pay that, anyway.



You and I would not but don't fool yourself into thinking nobody would.. Like I said many times already why would people in my area pay 7 8 dollars a bag when they can get it at the breaker but they do...Some breakers will let you fill the trunk of your car trash cans book bags they don't care... Trust me " Nobody would " is a bold statement

I bet no one ever thought people would pay 1.50 for a bottle of water 10 years ago but guess what , you got it .. People do.


People were paying $7.50 for a 40 lb bag of wood pellets in the NE this winter when they ran out! Normally around $4 a bag.
tjnamtiw
 
Other Heating: Sopka Cook stove

Re: Getting into the coal business

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sun Mar 30, 2014 11:36 am

Wanna Bee wrote:
The same truck used for delivery concrete block would be perfect for deliveries. Rated to carry the weight and I'm sure you can get one cheap.


That wouldn't make a good coal delivery method because you'll have the coal destroyed.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Getting into the coal business

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:01 pm

Richard S. wrote:
Wanna Bee wrote:
The same truck used for delivery concrete block would be perfect for deliveries. Rated to carry the weight and I'm sure you can get one cheap.


That wouldn't make a good coal delivery method because you'll have the coal destroyed.

Concrete block truck for delivery was in reference to WB's idea of delivering a pre-filled bin of coal in 1 ton or more capacity using the truck's boom/crane to load/unload the bins ,how would that idea be hard on the coal ? just curious as you have coal delivery experience & i have none.
windyhill4.2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Other Heating: Oaktree OWB 600K

Re: Getting into the coal business

PostBy: whistlenut On: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:02 pm

No matter how you cut it, the handling, and stops for multiple visits, travel time from place to place..........causes the cost to rise. If they sold fuel oil in 5 gallon jugs, what do you suppose the cost would be/gallon?????????? In 55's cheaper, but harder to deal with.......275 tanks......epa, state regs, blah blah blah. Now you can show yourself how ONE CENTRAL LOCATION is cost effective.

Every time you handle it, someone has a fee of some sort. Many of the pellet silos around here now....3.5 tons to 7 tons. How the hell can you dispatch a speciality truck (Grain Style rig,) and drive 50 miles between stops and make a living? IF they could delivery to each town and make multiple drops, that would help. No one said it would be easy...........
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
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