New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: whistlenut On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:30 pm

Since we all agree on the chimney location, it might be prudent to mention that the round flue tiles flow much better than rectangular or square tiles. Ask anyone who has them....small price to pay for a better draft.
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: oilman On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:23 pm

Heck yes, and while you're at it, insulate those round tiles with ceramic blanket sleeves. Or Thermix/or other poured insulation brand.(don't tell the building inspector, but I like hi-temp silicone to seal tile joints, too. ) Round tiles are alot harder to crack, too. In case you use the dreaded wood...... :o
You know, you never hear anything about masonry heaters/Russian stoves, but I have a couple of oil customers that have them and they work great. Small fire in the AM and the house is warm all day, has to be center location tho.
oilman
 

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: grimmy On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:26 pm

Thank you!
grimmy
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Dovre
Coal Size/Type: nut


Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: tsb On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:49 pm

Do it right the first time for those of us who didn't !
tsb
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Binford 2000
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Pioneer top vent
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Saey Hanover II

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:59 pm

whistlenut wrote:I would purchase a used oil boiler, late model, triple pass or tube (very reasonable as folks change out to NG) and a Super Stor or equivalent indirect water heater(also many used at 40% of new costs). You cannot OD on insulation, and if budgeting permits start looking at spray foam. Hydronic heating and as much radiant as is practical. The 'latest and greatest' will probably not save you a dime over time. IF solar siting is favorable, I'd support that LONG before the Geo-Thermal. Obviously I prefer coal, however oil is the best hedge right now as a 'Lender Friendly' primary fuel.

Chimney: No matter what, some form of a 2 flue chimney, preferable within the structure and not on a outside wall. SS costs about the same and has no where near the longevity. Be flexible if you want to remain married/shackled.......whatever they call it now, or she will own it and you will be standing outdoors with Mr. Happy in one hand with a bewildered look on your face, with a stack of payment obligations..

Look around for a coal boiler, there are many to choose from; used or new. I might add if you are worried about the coal supply, I have been burning for 48 years without any issues, so the money you save every year, sure makes your choice a no-brainer IMO. Try to make an area dedicated to the boiler room and not so small that a troll is the only one who fits into it. If you were lucky, you might be able to design a waterproof coal bin outside with access through your new foundation.

....also forgot, if you wanted to do an ISO insulated concrete foundation, there is another way to save more money over time. If you can ever go into a basement with ISO forms, you will be amazed at how sound deadened it is. Never feels cold and saves every day you live there. That would allow the wifey to have her dream kitchen, and you could be warm and comfy in the basement.......just thinkin' down the road.


Lots of good advice here. I will second the ISO foundation, my brother chose that route when he built his house and I continue to be surprised at how warm/dry/quiet the basement is. Chimney should go up through the house, period. Put a lot of thought into how you will handle the coal and ashes. Ideally the boiler will be close to the basement entrance.

Something else to consider, the orientation of the house in relation to the sun can make quite a difference in the lifetime heating/cooling costs of the home. A proper overhang will shade the windows in the summer and allow solar gain in the winter.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: Lynx220 On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:10 pm

Thanks again for the great comments. If I go with the anthracite boiler, I'm going to go with an oil boiler for backup and use in fall/spring. Also, I'm hoping to build a larger attached garage and put the furnace(s) in the garage. I really want to keep all of the coal "mess" out in the garage. I've even thought about putting the coal bin just outside of the garage and cutting a hole in the garage wall for the auger. I'm definitely not going to cheap out on insulation, windows, and doors. There is a windmill farm about 200 ft. in elevation above the home building site, so as you might infer, it is very windy. I'm somewhat handy, but my father-in-law is a mechanical genius and will be available to help me work on the home, so I'm definitely lucky there.
Lynx220
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Newmac
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut Blaschak

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: oliver power On: Fri Mar 14, 2014 5:08 am

oilman wrote:Heck yes, and while you're at it, insulate those round tiles with ceramic blanket sleeves. Or Thermix/or other poured insulation brand.(don't tell the building inspector, but I like hi-temp silicone to seal tile joints, too. ) Round tiles are alot harder to crack, too. In case you use the dreaded wood...... :o
You know, you never hear anything about masonry heaters/Russian stoves, but I have a couple of oil customers that have them and they work great. Small fire in the AM and the house is warm all day, has to be center location tho.
Oilman, I have a customer who built his own house. In the middle of the house, they put in a masonry heater as you describe. Small wood fire in the morning. The mass radiates heat all day long. I had forgotten about that till I read your post. Now it has my attention again.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:57 am

There is a man in my area that built a round home with a 23 ton masonry stove in the center, it even has a vent to bring outside air under the floor of the house and right into the firebox. Not many folks can say they heat a 2300 sq. ft home 10 miles from Canada for 3.5 cords of hardwood per year.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: coalkirk On: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:48 am

Well you've gotten lots of good advice. I'd like to stress one thing people have told you. Build it tight and super insulate. You only get one chance to do that right. There is a new home next door to me. Code here now requires every little opening to be sealed with expanding foam limiting air infiltration and requires lots of insulation. This is not a small home and there are two heat pumps installed. They never run them. They are heating this entire home with one freestanding woodstove in the basement. That is usually not easy to do and get a comfortable result in the first and second levels. Hot rooms, cool rooms and cold rooms often result. I've been in this home on the coldest of days and it is very comfortable throughout. The keys are no air infiltration and very good insulation.
coalkirk
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF3000
Coal Size/Type: antrhcite/rice coal

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: oilman On: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:50 pm

Run over to a store where they sell magazines and pick up a copy of Fine Homebuilding. It's also sold at Lowes and Home Depot. Alot of good stuff this month on tight building and you can refer to older articles on the website and also many good books on doing this stuff at their online bookstore. If you don't know what polyiso boards are, you better take this advice.:) You'll want to use alot of it............
oilman
 

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: Nevercold On: Fri Mar 14, 2014 7:37 pm

I haven't read through the entire thread.
I also designed my modular home, and spec'd it out. My first to date.
I did my own heat loss calculations, in order to size my boiler to the house.
My 64K BTU oil fired boiler still sits in it's crate, 10 years later.

Now for my point, WHEN you do your heat loss calculations,
you will find your BIGGEST loss is your windows.
My walls are R21, siding R4+, Attic R30+, windows.....R2-3!!!
Spending tons of money on gross insulation will yield very little comfort or return.
There is very little you can do to improve their performance,
short of storm windows/heavy drapes/plastic seal.
Choose size and number of windows wisely!
In retrospect, I would have down sized the windows, I have 32+ !!!
Nevercold
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: DVC-500

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: Scottscoaled On: Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:53 pm

Yes, speaking of windows. I'm talking with a guy who built 300 passive solar heated houses. Houses that are heated entirely by solar! He stresses two points. Isolating your wood frame from the cold. He uses foam board up to four inches thick on the outside and roof of the house. He states that the cold transfers in thru the wood. The second is window selection/size. South facing windows are heat "makers". East and west windows are neutral. they make as much heat as they lose. North facing windows are heat losers. They lose more than they produce. I guess that windows are fine as long as there are more, bigger south facing windows and less, smaller north facing windows
Scottscoaled
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520x3, 700 Van Wert 800
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: EFM 150, Keystoker 150
Coal Size/Type: Lots of buck

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: Nevercold On: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:12 pm

I bought my siding in 2003. Things may have changed a bit, but I used CRANE siding.
Still looks like new. I would highly recommend them. Also, a very quiet home. :)
Things may have changed, so do your homework.
Nevercold
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman
Stove/Furnace Model: DVC-500

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sat Mar 15, 2014 7:25 am

Scottscoaled wrote:East and west windows are neutral. they make as much heat as they lose. North facing windows are heat losers. They lose more than they produce. I guess that windows are fine as long as there are more, bigger south facing windows and less, smaller north facing windows


Excellent point Scott.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:59 am

I'm sorry guys but I am not a fan of a tightly sealed home. Even the EPA has worked out that inside home air is a major health hazard. You need to google more.

If you seal every single little orifice with foam then the pollutants of modern living accumulate. Styrenes, phthalates, house dust, viruses and God knows what else just accumulate. Carpets, drapes and a thousand other things give off toxic fumes. So suckers, do you feel healthier, well do ya? (sorry Clint Eastwood). Don't get me started on the epidemiology of asthma and other inflammatory diseases. Observations on central chimneys,materials and window placement make good sense but most other things do not. As money is so hard to accumulate today I value expenditures at 10%. I can get great coal at $160 a ton and perhaps I will burn 12 tons this horrible winter. Perhaps twice what a medium sized sealed down house will burn. That is about $1000 more per year and that means if I spend more than $10,000 upgrading the place I am wasting money and it won't do very much. I thank God I live next door to NEPA. With high construction costs $10,000 buys very little in the insulation upgrading dept.

So you wonderful mining guys, keeping digging and I'm buying. Geothermal, wind and solar in my God forsaken part of the world is a joke and not cost effective. When the weather turns bitchy I need 250,000BTU, try that with your solar panel covered in two feet of ice. Geothermal? Yeah, I love digging through granite. 100' windmill? Here the wind does not blow enough and I am trying to increase the bat population, now that is GREEN. Just what I need is some idiot windmill chewing up my buddies and keeping me awake at night. All these things need maintenance and a lot of it. Besides which all the electronics in these idiot devices are made in China and lack any sort of real quality or longevity. I want to employ PA guys.

I am thinking of getting a bigger stove, I need to call Berwick. I love the open farm life. Work outside, freeze your a** off and come in and blast that anthracite heat. Boots by the Hitzer. Love POH stoves but I need a serious, very powerful heat engine in the basement. Thx LL.

Whoops I sense incoming..... the only thing green about me is vomit from bad beer from time to time. There are NO pellets around and firewood is becoming rarer than Renoirs. I need another TT load of black gold, where is the phone? Who told you to stop digging.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I slay myself.
coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22