New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: dcrane On: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:36 am

Rob R. wrote:
whistlenut wrote:I would purchase a used oil boiler, late model, triple pass or tube (very reasonable as folks change out to NG) and a Super Stor or equivalent indirect water heater(also many used at 40% of new costs). You cannot OD on insulation, and if budgeting permits start looking at spray foam. Hydronic heating and as much radiant as is practical. The 'latest and greatest' will probably not save you a dime over time. IF solar siting is favorable, I'd support that LONG before the Geo-Thermal. Obviously I prefer coal, however oil is the best hedge right now as a 'Lender Friendly' primary fuel.

Chimney: No matter what, some form of a 2 flue chimney, preferable within the structure and not on a outside wall. SS costs about the same and has no where near the longevity. Be flexible if you want to remain married/shackled.......whatever they call it now, or she will own it and you will be standing outdoors with Mr. Happy in one hand with a bewildered look on your face, with a stack of payment obligations..

Look around for a coal boiler, there are many to choose from; used or new. I might add if you are worried about the coal supply, I have been burning for 48 years without any issues, so the money you save every year, sure makes your choice a no-brainer IMO. Try to make an area dedicated to the boiler room and not so small that a troll is the only one who fits into it. If you were lucky, you might be able to design a waterproof coal bin outside with access through your new foundation.

....also forgot, if you wanted to do an ISO insulated concrete foundation, there is another way to save more money over time. If you can ever go into a basement with ISO forms, you will be amazed at how sound deadened it is. Never feels cold and saves every day you live there. That would allow the wifey to have her dream kitchen, and you could be warm and comfy in the basement.......just thinkin' down the road.


Lots of good advice here. I will second the ISO foundation, my brother chose that route when he built his house and I continue to be surprised at how warm/dry/quiet the basement is. Chimney should go up through the house, period. Put a lot of thought into how you will handle the coal and ashes. Ideally the boiler will be close to the basement entrance.

Something else to consider, the orientation of the house in relation to the sun can make quite a difference in the lifetime heating/cooling costs of the home. A proper overhang will shade the windows in the summer and allow solar gain in the winter.


Im with Rob and say Whistlenut had some seriously sound advise here! In terms of health factors with sealed new houses (you will surly have an automated exhaust fan that removes stale air and takes in fresh air at an adjustable rate to your choosing)... Its mandated when stretch code is used here in Ma. I would also love the idea of a separate coal/boiler/bin area built into the foundation/construction (with its own walk out door)... exterior bin foundation built and poured with the foundation even :o ! Interior chimney with at least 2 flu's capped with a slab of granite/stone! depending on the grades/landscape have the excavator dig 4 lousy holes down to "fluff" filled with stone at the corners at least 10 feet away from the foundation for your downspouts to lead to (so easy and cheap to do at this stage), and do the same thing at the base of any walkout basement doors. The future of Anthracite in your case is as solid as ANYTHING for YOU being in the heart of Pa.!
dcrane
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: oliver power On: Thu Mar 27, 2014 6:37 am

coalnewbie wrote:I'm sorry guys but I am not a fan of a tightly sealed home. Even the EPA has worked out that inside home air is a major health hazard. You need to google more.

If you seal every single little orifice with foam then the pollutants of modern living accumulate. Styrenes, phthalates, house dust, viruses and God knows what else just accumulate. Carpets, drapes and a thousand other things give off toxic fumes. So suckers, do you feel healthier, well do ya? (sorry Clint Eastwood). Don't get me started on the epidemiology of asthma and other inflammatory diseases. Observations on central chimneys,materials and window placement make good sense but most other things do not. As money is so hard to accumulate today I value expenditures at 10%. I can get great coal at $160 a ton and perhaps I will burn 12 tons this horrible winter. Perhaps twice what a medium sized sealed down house will burn. That is about $1000 more per year and that means if I spend more than $10,000 upgrading the place I am wasting money and it won't do very much. I thank God I live next door to NEPA. With high construction costs $10,000 buys very little in the insulation upgrading dept.

So you wonderful mining guys, keeping digging and I'm buying. Geothermal, wind and solar in my God forsaken part of the world is a joke and not cost effective. When the weather turns bitchy I need 250,000BTU, try that with your solar panel covered in two feet of ice. Geothermal? Yeah, I love digging through granite. 100' windmill? Here the wind does not blow enough and I am trying to increase the bat population, now that is GREEN. Just what I need is some idiot windmill chewing up my buddies and keeping me awake at night. All these things need maintenance and a lot of it. Besides which all the electronics in these idiot devices are made in China and lack any sort of real quality or longevity. I want to employ PA guys.

I am thinking of getting a bigger stove, I need to call Berwick. I love the open farm life. Work outside, freeze your a** off and come in and blast that anthracite heat. Boots by the Hitzer. Love POH stoves but I need a serious, very powerful heat engine in the basement. Thx LL.

Whoops I sense incoming..... the only thing green about me is vomit from bad beer from time to time. There are NO pellets around and firewood is becoming rarer than Renoirs. I need another TT load of black gold, where is the phone? Who told you to stop digging.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I slay myself.
Yes coalnewbie , Too tight, and you need air exchanger. I like a little air leakage. That's why I don't insulate, and seal off my basement. A little air infiltration is good.
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: grimmy On: Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:58 pm

I hope the new home goes well! Either way, burn coal. I have a kid to put through college.
grimmy
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Dovre
Coal Size/Type: nut


Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: Lynx220 On: Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:46 pm

My wife is actually due with our first child (boy) in three weeks...

Thanks again for all the responses. I'm leaning towards an anthracite stoker boiler with an oil backup for Spring/Fall. For now, we are starting to clear the land and get some bids for the house we designed. We are definitely going to insulate the house well, but my father-in-law always said that a house has to breathe so I'll take his advice.

Is the Axeman-Anderson 130 pretty easy to run? I'm kind of leaning towards it for the stoker boiler in-spite of my in-laws being loyal EFM fans.

Thanks-
Lynx220
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Newmac
Coal Size/Type: Chestnut Blaschak

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: JeepinPete On: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:43 am

I will start off saying that I am relatively new to coal. This was my third winter burning the stuff. I purchased an used (1950's built) EFM, and I can't see how one could build a simpler coal burner. This machine is nearly 60 years old, and it just works. The wear parts are pretty simple to replace, and the mechanisms are so overbuilt, I wouldn't be surprised in the least that it would last another 100 years. It is also very quiet, which pleases me to no end.

That being said, it is a bit sensitive to the quality of the coal. Clean rice burns great. Rice with a lot of fines burns pretty well. My first load of coal this year was a mix of rice, buck, and fine, and that was a mess. I was getting all kinds of weird burn patterns out of it, and incomplete burn of the heavier coal. Not the fault of the EFM for certain, and I was less than pleased that the delivery guy showed up with that mix. Also, I've had small sticks and metal end up wound around the auger at the bottom of the burn pot. That messes up the burn pattern, but shutting down the machine and cleaning it out is very simple so long as you have a shop vac handy.
JeepinPete
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Stove/Furnace Make: EFM
Stove/Furnace Model: Highboy

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: nortcan On: Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:07 pm

In fact if a house breath, it's leaky and you can't control the cold air coming in and the heat going out. If YOU have the air exchanges ratio control, then it's very easy to get a slightly positive house giving a best chimney's draft, healtier inside air and a more confortable house. If a house is well insulated but not air tight, the humidity from warm air will condensate gradually inside of the exterior walls, then the problems will begin...
Modern insulating products and methods are very far from what was done in the past. If going to the insulation side, one SHOULD go all the way on that side. No short cut.
If some need a proof of that, I can give many many examples of it, not theories but real working facts.
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:04 pm

nortcan wrote:In fact if a house breath, it's leaky and you can't control the cold air coming in and the heat going out. If YOU have the air exchanges ratio control, then it's very easy to get a slightly positive house giving a best chimney's draft, healthier inside air and a more comfortable house. If a house is well insulated but not air tight, the humidity from warm air will condensate gradually inside of the exterior walls, then the problems will begin...
Modern insulating products and methods are very far from what was done in the past. If going to the insulation side, one SHOULD go all the way on that side. No short cut. If some need a proof of that, I can give many many examples of it, not theories but real working facts.


I agree. A properly ventilated and insulated house is a far cry from "leaky" or "full of polluted air". I was a skeptic of tight construction also until some friends built tight homes with air exchangers. Their houses don't get overly dry, are easy to heat, and don't have the condensation issues of older homes that were tightened up after the fact.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:12 pm

Rob , does that mean that one could achieve the same "super tight/insulated" outcome by redoing an old house or by design is the old house better left to breathe more on its own? I guess my question is a bit off topic as it is about New Home build,but realizing that one can design from footer up to achieve the "super tight/insulated" house & still have healthy air inside,but i'm still curious as to how a redo would work.
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: nortcan On: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:36 pm

Re-insulating an old house is possible but much harder and cost more than when building a new house. Insulation can be done from Inside or outside of an old house. If from Inside, the vapor lock should be place at the right place. If from the outside the air barrier product an insulating materials shoud not be vaporlock.
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:47 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:Rob , does that mean that one could achieve the same "super tight/insulated" outcome by redoing an old house or by design is the old house better left to breathe more on its own?


I think it would be cost prohibitive and risky to try and get an old home to perform like a new one that was built "tight" from day 1. That is just my opinion of course.

Fuel consumption has been reduced substantially in my home without any observed problems, but the full story probably deserves its own thread.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:01 pm

Thanks , nortcan & Rob ,seems most things are best to be purpose built rather than to be repurposed .
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Mar 30, 2014 1:08 pm

Within reason, yes. If you have cold drafts blowing through your windows/doors/walls, there is room for a lot of improvement without negative consequences.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:06 pm

coalnewbie
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL AnthraKing 180K, Pocono110K,KStokr 90K, DVC
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93,
Baseburners & Antiques: Invader 2 Wings Best, Glenwood #8 + Herald 116x
Coal Size/Type: Rice, Chestnut
Other Heating: Heating Oil CH, Toyotomi OM 22

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:39 pm

Makes spray foam insulation look as appealing as aspartame for ones health, cellulose seems like the best choice even better than fiberglass.
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: New Home Build...Future of Anthracite?

PostBy: nortcan On: Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:24 pm

If the vapor lock is correctly installed and sealed and the house is slightly positive pressurised from a well balanced ( not done on many air exchanger on site installations) air exchanger, the ""supposed material polluants"" will be routed to the exterior of the house.
The inside air will and should be safer than the outside one, having a controlled humidity level.
As said on the reports, many problems come from poor installation of the insulation products.
All that reminds me the same discussions from unawared peoples about anth burning. Many times one ""scientific Survey"" is invalided from an other one, in all area.
Anonimous posts mean nothing, we all receive lots every days...and know where they end up. ;)
nortcan
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Stuart,Peterson/ Grander
Stove/Furnace Model: Sunnyside/ Golden Bride