Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: Ted4 On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:45 am

Katman said it all in his last paragraph.
WIFE IS HAPPY!!!!!
My bedrooms have been at 62 all winter. How happy u think my wife is?
Ted4
 

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: franksnbeans On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:59 am

I hear that. I'm getting sick of cutting wood so I'm going to a coal boiler. I will use the same pipe already have for the wood. I don't know about your setup, but my wood boiler is an open system so I use a heat exchanger. I'm sure I lose efficiency with it. The coal will be piped direct into my system which had Ann oil furnace. If wood is free its great but wood prices are getting up there also.
franksnbeans
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 130
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: gizmo On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:19 am

I put this in 5 Years ago.After the pipe is
in you can pull anything flexable through it.It
seals out any water that would contact your pipe.I
use it for future flexability.I ran Thermo Pex
through mine.


http://www.insulseal.com
gizmo
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Pea
Other Heating: NONE

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Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: Lu47Dan On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:34 am

One added benefit from installing the PVC conduit is if there is a problem in the future, ie. leak , rupture or other problem, the pex can be withdrawn and the new pex installed. I am not a fan of direct burial of any heating lines.
Since the OP already said the rock is about 2' down, he should add a bed of pea gravel to prevent chaffing, Sand could be used if the rock is not shale, shale will steal sand from a ditch.
Also he posted the house is built on a slab, so the conduit can be installed coming out of the ground on the outside of the house, use an LB fitting to enter the house with a expansion joint right below the LB to prevent the conduit from ripping the wall up when it expands and contracts.
The Thermopex option looks like the next best option in the OP's situation.
http://www.thermopex.com/?src=googletp&gclid=COGny6Pcj70CFS1p7Aodcm8AyQ
But he could still use a long radius sweep, the LB, expansion joint, and a short length of PVC conduit to come up out of the ground into the house from outside.
Be advised a long radius sweep in 6" is Big, very big.
Dan.
Lu47Dan
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Sears circulator air tight stove.
Other Heating: Crown 115,000 BTU oil fired boiler(house) Weil Mclain 150,000BTU oil fired boiler(Shop)

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: Ted4 On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:46 am

I'm like a sponge soaking this all up
Ted4
 

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:17 am

Ted4,we have just gone thru our 7th winter with our OWB,we have 180' from stove to house,we buried 4 " drain tile & pulled the pex pair thru,after wrapping with a bubble type insulation,we added 12" of stone dust around & on top to help keep things dry,we did not have any melt line all winter till the first weather warm up,which made the ground very wet,that is when we first noticed the melt line at some spots,apparently the moisture seeping down thru meets heat coming out & wicks it to the surface. When the ground is good & dry & froze it seems as tho the heat does not transfer up to the ground surface. My long winded post is aimed at info for you to consider,& the important part you need to learn from this is .... You can't go overboard when installing underground piping like this,if doing over i would install an 8" pvc or other similar sealed "tube" & then pull the Thermopex thru,money well worth spending with no need to redo later. PS...... We have well drained soil ,pex is buried 36-40",we do not have a water saturation problem except for certain times of the yr/weather conditions. We did not have a forum like this forum to go to for advice on proper procedure,we talked to some who had done it b4 & had it work ok,we did the total install our selves & altho looking back & seeing the less than best things we did,we have not used any other fuel ,(in our case ,wood) hopefully coal next winter & beyond. Do it right the first time,be happy,warm & enjoy coal heating .
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: Ted4 On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:41 am

Again, thanks all. Your last phrase, do it right the first time is exactly what I'm trying to do. I have a habit of trying to save a few bucks then paying later.
Ted4
 

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: titleist1 On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:47 am

http://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/unde ... imp.50506/

Just in case you haven't run across this thread over there.......A good one to read through.....
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:03 pm

Ted,I'll bet you've gotten some Angles 'N' Dangles on your project that may have surprised you. That's a Standard here on 'Der Coal Board ! "Cheap" Kills a Projects' Final and Lasting Results. You'll find the Balance. Keep us posted. :up:
Hambden Bob
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni !

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: Lu47Dan On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:26 pm

Ted, one other thing that is important when installing the underground, install a warning tape approximately 8 -12" above the piping, conduit, or cable to prevent accidental severing of the service. Around my house I use "Caution" tape. I bury it to help with my memory in the coming years.
Dan.
Last edited by Lu47Dan on Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lu47Dan
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Sears circulator air tight stove.
Other Heating: Crown 115,000 BTU oil fired boiler(house) Weil Mclain 150,000BTU oil fired boiler(Shop)

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:35 pm

We used stone dust around our pex line to ....mark where it is 12" -top bottom & both sides, helps prevent stones from puncturing,helps to drain/dry ditch, more work than a tape but more noticeable when digging + the other benefits.
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: katman On: Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:20 am

titleist1--I did try to measure the heat loss at entry and exit of the thermapex so I could see how much I was giving up over the 100 foot underground run. Used an old handheld infrared I was given as a gift and, well, I think it must be off because it was showing at most only a couple degrees. That was when I first did the install. Haven't checked it with another measuring device but I really should get around to buying a better handheld and checking it. Just hasn't been high on the list. After seeing no snow melt last year and again this winter when we had ground covered for several weeks the thermapex does appear to be doing a pretty good job.
katman
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Magnum
Other Heating: Harman PB 105 Pellet Boiler

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: gizmo On: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:12 am

I ran 130' with 3/4" pipe and it looks like
I loose about 5 degrees maybe from one end to
the other.
gizmo
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA-130
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Pea
Other Heating: NONE

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:31 am

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand, CLOSED cell foam will repel moisture - not absorb it. I hardens up like a rock when fully cured. OPEN cell foam on the other hand is soft and pliable, AND absorbs moisture like a sponge.
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: Ted4 On: Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:13 pm

Your wrong snotty!!!!
Just kidding, yes in theory I believe that's the case, but I read up on it a bit and there was some guys who used it to fill cavities in boats, and it became soaked. That's why I started this post. I know how this stuff hardens up, but if I'm gonna do this, I want to make sure.
Ted4
 

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