Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: Ted4 On: Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:29 pm

Sorry smitty, I replied to you today on my cell phone at work, I guess my auto correct typed in snotty. I never noticed until just now reading my posts.
Ted4
 

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: lzaharis On: Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:26 pm

Ted4 wrote:
I need some input,

I have a 50 ft run from my coal shed to my house.
If I dig any deeper than 24" I will hit ledge stone.

So I really have a shallow trench. My concern is this,
I need to run 1 1/4" pair to house, but that doesn't
give a whole lot of insulating in a 5" pipe.

I planned on foaming it myself but the more I read about
closed cell foam, the more I read about it becoming slowly
saturated when exposed to ground water.

Any and all opinions appreciated.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thermopex in the solid drainage tubing is your
best option at 13 dollars+- per foot with a lot of
very happy users with shallow burial depths and
no warm ground or melted snow.
lzaharis
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Switzer
Stove/Furnace Model: CWW100 100,000 btu

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: Lu47Dan On: Fri Mar 14, 2014 11:45 pm

Ted, as a person who has scrapped/cut up several boats that had foam injected for added floatation, closed cell foam will after time become water logged. One I cut up, had two areas about the size of a steel Coleman cooler injected full of foam those chunks of foam must have weighed in at around 60# apiece when I pulled them out of the hull. After dripping out over two weeks they maybe weighed 10# apiece.
I watch were I use foam now.
I know that the PVC conduit is expansive but well worth the piece of mind.
One set of underground lines I installed had conduit fittings on the ends and Schd.40 PVC water pipe between them. He had the PVC water pipe so we used it as it would work for that purpose.
One thing you might want to do while you are in there is install an 2" and a 3/4" conduit in the ditch also. and a 1" PE line for water.
Dan.
Lu47Dan
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Sears circulator air tight stove.
Other Heating: Crown 115,000 BTU oil fired boiler(house) Weil Mclain 150,000BTU oil fired boiler(Shop)

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Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: Burt 36 On: Mon Mar 17, 2014 12:23 pm

There is a company that makes insulated copper tubing. The shell is a thin walled closed cell foam (polyisocianate). The tube is centered in the thin walled PVC, much like Yanche described in his reply. Elbows and thin sheet PVC is sold with the part A part B polyisocianate. I have installed this pipe system for cryogenic applications, but it can also be used for running underground from point A to point B. The pipe system might be beyond the desireable cost level here, but this is to inform the users on this forum. The name of the particular manufacturer I am familar with is Rovanco. Mention of this brand is not intended as an advertisement. Users on this forum my benefit from this reply.

Cheers,

Burt 36 (just a screen name)
Burt 36
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Planning to buy one

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: StokerDon On: Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:04 pm

Ted,

You will likey need 1.25" PEX. Read this http://s3.pexsupply.com/manuals/1350570 ... D_FILE.pdf Then you can make you own calculations for PEX size and pump size.

I very recently installed a stoker boiler in my garage " Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler " The guys on this forum realy helped me out a lot. I had no idea of how to size pipe or pumps, but it all works now!

By the way, the best insulated PEX supplier I found was http://www.badgerinsulatedpipe.com/ Nice people and by far less expensive than anybody else. $395 for 100' of 2x1" with 2x3/4" (four pipes wrapped together). My install has the pipe clamped to the ceiling of the garage so I got it with no drain tile. That makes it a little cheaper.

Also, make sure you get oxygen barrier PEX!!! NON OB PEX will rust out your boiler.

Good luck, I hope you have as much fun as I had!

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: Ted4 On: Mon Mar 17, 2014 10:56 pm

Don, u got the insulated wrap, with no tile? They sent just the pipe wrapped? Am I understanding u correctly?
Ted4
 

Re: Trenched foam vs insulated pipe

PostBy: StokerDon On: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:24 pm

Ted4 wrote:Don, u got the insulated wrap, with no tile? They sent just the pipe wrapped? Am I understanding u correctly?

Ted,

Yes, no drain tile. That's whats nice about Badger, they can make it anyway you need it. My pipe run is all indoors and clamped to the ceiling, no drain tile needed. Just 4 pipes, insulated from each other and wrapped in insulation. There website is not great but they insulate the PEX themselves and supply insulated pipe to the whole country. They actualy have a lot more than is on there website. I didn't see the size I needed in oxygen barrier PEX so I called. They were very helpful and we talked about the install and the fact the I was not putting in a trench. It turned out they had what I needed in stock, it just wasn't listed on there website.

Don't forget, OXYGEN BARRIER PEX.

You will likely need 1.25" to make certine your 150,000+ BTU's from your EFM make it into your house.

READ THIS
" http://s3.pexsupply.com/manuals/1350570 ... D_FILE.pdf"

It's just a few easy equations to help yuo get a handle on what size pipe and circualtor pump you need to get your BTU's to your house.

You can look at my install thread " Yellow Flame, A Christmas Stoker Boiler "

My pump sizing calulation is at the bottom of page 10. You may also want to paint your boiler a nice bright color.

-Don
StokerDon
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Yellow Flame "Competion Series" 3 grate boiler
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Stoker1? can't figure out these dern Alaska names!!! It's a big old black one.
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Harman SF3500
Coal Size/Type: Rice and Chestnut
Other Heating: Noth'in but COAL! Well, Maybe a little tiny bit of wood

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