Build a Base Burner Stove

 
User avatar
dlj
Member
Posts: 1273
Joined: Thu. Nov. 27, 2008 6:38 pm
Location: Monroe, NY
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Castings Resolute
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Baseheater #6
Coal Size/Type: Stove coal
Other Heating: Oil Furnace, electric space heaters

Post by dlj » Mon. Mar. 17, 2014 11:45 pm

Just do like the Romans, put the fire in the basement, pipe the exhaust through ducts in the flooring... Radiant floor heating! They were doing it 2000 years ago...

dj

 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25567
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Mar. 18, 2014 6:52 am

Extracting the heat before it gets to the chimney is easy.

However, there are other advantages to sending the heat under the stoves. One is as Wilson said, heating the floor around the stove (and making the house pets happy :D ).

But, there is one other advantage being missed by not sending the hot gases under the stove. That is, additional pre-heating of the incoming air to make for an even more efficient burn in the firepot.

Paul

 
wilsons woodstoves
Member
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon. Dec. 16, 2013 7:55 pm
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood, Crawford, Magee, Herald, Others

Post by wilsons woodstoves » Tue. Mar. 18, 2014 8:10 am

good point....

 
User avatar
Kennebago
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri. Dec. 06, 2013 4:56 pm
Location: Central MA, Woolwich, Maine
Stoker Coal Boiler: Coming Spring 2014
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Oak / Home Grand Restoration Projects
Other Heating: Arrgghh "Oil Boiler"

Post by Kennebago » Tue. Mar. 18, 2014 5:17 pm

Interesting topic. I see a lot of speculation as to why certain stoves were built the way they were and I thought you might find the following useful. For me I like to go back to the original patents and read what the inventor had to say about why he did what he did. The following list of stove patents includes things on base burners. All the patents are available to view on the USPTO.gov website.

One interesting place to start might be US289802 (dec 11, 1883 --PD Beckwith - they had a lot on the ball back then). If you find this stuff interesting and want to read more here is a short list of US patents you might find interesting: USRE1397, US39535, US40,132, US134573, US169601, US289802, US392894, US462617, US984200, US1173581

I tried to get the numbers correct - hopefully I did - patents are interesting because people are "arguing" why their idea is better than the last guys. If you get into this I think you will find about 100 related patents on base heaters -- its also an interesting history lesson. If you get into this its also interesting to see what else the same guys patented - if you run across a guy named Treadwell, check him out, wow he dabbled in an awful lot of stuff!

Just think how accomplished the iron foundries of the day were, that they could cast this stuff

Enjoy


 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25567
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Mar. 18, 2014 5:40 pm

Thanks, sounds like interesting reading.

However, none of the numbers you posted work when put into the search box at that uspto.gov website.

Paul

 
scalabro
Member
Posts: 4197
Joined: Wed. Oct. 03, 2012 9:53 am
Location: Western Massachusetts
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14, Abendroth Bros "Record 40"
Coal Size/Type: Stove / Anthracite.
Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.

Post by scalabro » Tue. Mar. 18, 2014 6:48 pm

About the only couple of improvements on an anthracite only, suspended fire pot BB I think would be beneficial, without looking stupid, would be:

High performance alloys (beautiful castings of course!)

Firepot refractory of one piece ceramic tube, like crucible ceramic material.

Making the cylinder "double bypass" meaning.... a cylinder within a cylinder. Hot gasses first travel down around the pot through and under the base, then back up the cylinder and out the stove.

Of course I'd spot weld fins the same length as the barrel, on the out side of the barrel ;)

 
User avatar
Kennebago
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri. Dec. 06, 2013 4:56 pm
Location: Central MA, Woolwich, Maine
Stoker Coal Boiler: Coming Spring 2014
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Oak / Home Grand Restoration Projects
Other Heating: Arrgghh "Oil Boiler"

Post by Kennebago » Tue. Mar. 18, 2014 7:25 pm

Sorry folks are having difficulties - this is not an easy site to use but once you learn the way it is set up there is a lot of info here

go to Google
Type in USPTO - that pulls up uspto.gov - click on that

upper right corner (above white box) click on search for patents
under "search for patents" go down 5 or 6 lines and look for " USPTO patent full-text and image database" ----click on it

look for section with heading "searching PDF Image Patents (Since 1790)
two lines down from that click on View Patent Full Page Images

In the upper left corner type the patent number you are looking for in the box to the left of "view Patent" (you will need to backspace out the zeros in the box and then type in the number you want - try 289802 for starters --
after you type in the number click on "view patent" and low and behold -- there it is

This is a government site after all and it is definitely a pain to use -- sorry - I should have put the "how-to" directions with my previous post -- if there are still problems let me know and I will try to be clearer in my explanation

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Tue. Mar. 18, 2014 8:01 pm

ok, I got all the way to the enter bar and tried a zillion combos, each one came back an error.

there is still a prefix or something needed. I even tried 1883 as the prefix for (Beckwith) US289802, no go.

i'd love to look at these but need more.

thanks,
steve


 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Tue. Mar. 18, 2014 9:10 pm

got it, I was on the wrong page, putting in the #'s. works fine once you get to know it.

need more stove specific patent #'s.

 
User avatar
Kennebago
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri. Dec. 06, 2013 4:56 pm
Location: Central MA, Woolwich, Maine
Stoker Coal Boiler: Coming Spring 2014
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Oak / Home Grand Restoration Projects
Other Heating: Arrgghh "Oil Boiler"

Post by Kennebago » Tue. Mar. 18, 2014 9:13 pm

put in the 6 digits of the number. don't use "us" or any other prefix or suffix, just the number. if that doesn't work let me know and I will try to figure out the problem

 
User avatar
LoschStoker
Member
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon. Feb. 04, 2008 12:47 pm
Location: Greencastle, PA.
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Kast Console III
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS 1500
Baseburners & Antiques: Monarch Paramount Range– Style 24PY-2 Burner
Other Heating: Yukon Polar-Eagle II Multi Furnace

Post by LoschStoker » Tue. Mar. 18, 2014 11:32 pm

I've been trying all evening to find the patent for Glenwood or Crawford BB stoves, no luck.
I did find the Kalamazoo catalog, 93mg file.

 
wilsons woodstoves
Member
Posts: 370
Joined: Mon. Dec. 16, 2013 7:55 pm
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood, Crawford, Magee, Herald, Others

Post by wilsons woodstoves » Wed. Mar. 19, 2014 8:27 am

Gekko wrote:About the only couple of improvements on an anthracite only, suspended fire pot BB I think would be beneficial, without looking stupid, would be:

High performance alloys (beautiful castings of course!)

Firepot refractory of one piece ceramic tube, like crucible ceramic material.

Making the cylinder "double bypass" meaning.... a cylinder within a cylinder. Hot gasses first travel down around the pot through and under the base, then back up the cylinder and out the stove.

Of course I'd spot weld fins the same length as the barrel, on the out side of the barrel ;)
I like the idea of fins,I have thought of using fins on my base pans, or even tubes to move a little air, not shure if I would cool of the pan to much or not. I figure a good chimney could handle it but the fins I like

 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25567
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Wed. Mar. 19, 2014 9:27 am

Depending on how they are attached to a flat cast iron surface that gets heated, fins can cause uneven expansion stresses that can crack the iron.

The only example I know that works well with long cast iron surfaces that get sudden changes in heating (direct mode to indirect mode) is pins cast as part of the cast iron surface, sticking up into the air stream .

One example is the old Masco exhaust heater manifolds for air cooled motor cars that doubled as the car's heater. Air was ducted from the motors cooling fan by flex pipes to the hot air passage ways built into the Masco exhaust manifold. Inside the hot air passage ways there are 1-1/2 inch long pins cast sticking up into the air passageway to extract heat from the exhaust manifold into the air stream.

The duct labyrinth along the side of the exhaust manifold is about 2-1/2 feet long on the shortest versions and over 4 feet long in passageway length of the longer ones. If fins were used over those lengths they would crack the manifold with the temperature differences.

Here's some pix of what I mean. This is a 1928 aircooled motor exhaust manifold - upside down- with it's outer sheet metal cover removed.

The cool air is forced in from a flexible tube at the left hand end, travels down the length of the manifold around the cast iron pins, then makes a U-turn to go back down the length, then another U-turn, through more pins, then out through more flexible duct that leads through the firewall and into the passenger compartment.

The last picture is one of a 1930 heater manifold with it's sheet metal cover in place, mounted on aircooled motor. The motor's squirrel-cage cooling fan is in the black housing on the right with round stainless steel flex duct leading to the front end of the exhaust manifold. On the left end is the same type flex ducts to the firewall with the on/off baffles (MPD's) that control the hot air flow.

Paul

Attachments

P1010030.JPG
.JPG | 175.9KB | P1010030.JPG
P1010031.JPG
.JPG | 176.7KB | P1010031.JPG
P1010032.JPG
.JPG | 188.9KB | P1010032.JPG
P1010035.JPG
.JPG | 184.2KB | P1010035.JPG
30 heater manifold 1.JPG
.JPG | 151.4KB | 30 heater manifold 1.JPG

Post Reply

Return to “Antiques, Baseburners, Kitchen Stoves, Restorations & Modern Reproductions”