design for feeding from bin

design for feeding from bin

PostBy: plumber On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:07 pm

Thinking about building a bin and getting away from bagged coal. Trying to figure out a good way to feed the boiler right from the bin. Where the boiler is I'd have the auger go into the bin around the end of the bin. If I built the bin flat, how much coal would the worm pick up?
plumber
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

Re: design for feeding from bin

PostBy: McGiever On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:02 pm

A 40-45 degree funnel cone up from where end of auger picks up.
Taller is better than wider... Big footprint bin does not help w/o sloped bottom.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: design for feeding from bin

PostBy: lzaharis On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:13 pm

The issue you have to deal with is referred to as "Mass Flow Of Materials.

NOW if you build a flat bin and simply stuff an auger in it it will pull all the
coal that the auger can transfer until the piles on both sides if the auger
can no longer move with mass flow to feed it and the auger will starve.for lack of
material to convey to the boiler.

There is huge amount of material on the home page about
bins and augers that you should also look at herein.


The EFM home page has an excellent description of a properly made bin and auger set up
using the Dog House method where the bin is sloped down to the auger end and feeds the
auger by gravity and the coal continues to feed it as the "Mass Flow" of coal is sliding down
and feeding the open auger end which is exposed.

The thing you have to remember is an open auger will pull everything forward until it
is gone or a shear pin breaks. The coal will flow forward until it can no longer flow from
conveying of the coal out of the bin because the bin does not have sloped sides that
would create the mass flow of coal.

The same issue occurs with an auger tube with an exposed and guarded end that you
would simply put on the floor of the bin it can only remove so much until you shovel more on it.

Ninety nine percent of the issue is where is it that your going to have the bin and you need to plan
around where it will be located in designing it as you want to make it as simple as possible to
reduce the labor involved.

The use of a dog house lets you bolt the auger tube tihe underside to take advantage
of the 21 degree angle for flow and flooding of the auger end.
lzaharis
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Switzer
Stove/Furnace Model: CWW100 100,000 btu

Re: design for feeding from bin

PostBy: plumber On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:39 pm

Where I can put the bin would have the auger going into the right end of the bin. Perhaps I could make the dog house there and slope the bin to one side? Although a 45 degree angle would mean that half my bin is dead space.
plumber
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

Re: design for feeding from bin

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:17 pm

Honestly unless you have a really high ceiling like 10 or 12 foot and want to spend a lot of extra money on materials it's not worth it. Anything below a 45 from the center of the auger end is dead space. We have a plastic 55 gallon drum inside the bin the auger goes into.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: design for feeding from bin

PostBy: Richard S. On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:25 pm

plumber wrote: Although a 45 degree angle would mean that half my bin is dead space.


That's why you need the high ceiling, you can build up. I had customer a customer with a 12 foot ceiling and something like a 8*8*12 bin with angled walls at the bottom. Might have been 10* 10. You could dump 10 ton into and it would just disappear....
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: design for feeding from bin

PostBy: titleist1 On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:47 pm

I have a 4w x 8l x 4h bin with the walls angled from the 8' length toward the middle. There is a space of about 1' between the sloped boards at the floor It holds just under 2 ton of rice. The sloped board does not go to the top of the bin wall, there is about 1' of straight wall above it.

Since I had extra on a roll here already, I put tyvek on the sloped board so the coal slides better. My first year with it so I can't tell you how it held up yet, check back later this spring if it ever gets here and I'll let you know!
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: design for feeding from bin

PostBy: plumber On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:57 pm

Head room is a wish. I've got 6 1/2 feet. I was thinking of 9x9x6. If I put the floor on a 45, I've only got a 5 ton capacity. I need 7. If I build it flat, will it fall at a 45? Perhaps I might be better off building a small bin and sticking with bagged coal.
plumber
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

Re: design for feeding from bin

PostBy: titleist1 On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:12 pm

i believe with a flat floor the slope of the coal left in the bin will be steeper than 45*. So if you put your auger in the middle of the 9x9 footprint you would have coal sloped ~ 5' up the walls of your bin as the auger empties out what it can reach in the middle. You have to rake the sloped coal toward the middle when you need to fill around the auger again.

Have you thought about using a 1 ton bag system on a pallet like someone else here has done? They move the pallet over their auger with a pallet jack and open a slide gate to allow the coal to flow to the auger. It is a very slick system.
titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: design for feeding from bin

PostBy: stoker-man On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:18 pm

If you look at the pictures of the bin at efm, and simplify it for home use, we never had a bit of trouble with it.
stoker-man
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: 1981 efm wcb-24 in use 365 days a year
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/Chestnut
Other Heating: Hearthstone wood stove

Re: design for feeding from bin

PostBy: plumber On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:48 pm

That skid system vermontday came up with is real slick. Perhaps I could make one on a smaller scale. Or a wooden skid about 5 feet tall. I was also looking at possibly getting a 275 gallon plastic tote. I'd like it to be hands off, but it may be more work than its worth. The layout of my basement really sucks! I have one window that's no where near the chimney, and I have the Mrs needs storage issue. If all else fails i can always use the barrel and keep pallets of bagged coal outside.
More reading to do.
plumber
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 350

Re: design for feeding from bin

PostBy: vermontday On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:52 pm

The skid system requires a large uncluttered basement with a level, smooth concrete floor.

If you do not have that, you are out of luck.

If you do have that, you can tell the misses that you will have more time for her as you won't be shlepping coal!
vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: design for feeding from bin

PostBy: Rick 386 On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:58 pm

Coal_Bin.pdf
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Select:BBcode: [nepafile=50083]Coal_Bin.pdf[/nepafile]



Plumber,

Here's some quick drawings of my AA 260 bin. I realize the pics are out of order but I wasn't going to re do the drawings.

1 - shows a cross section of the bin showing how I stack 2x4's or 2x6's to rise the height inside the bin to stack the coal towards the dog house. This was done by using 2x4's on the side wall leaving space to slide the others into the groove.

2. Shows 1 possibility where you would just have the sloped section near the auger only so it would self feed.I added the 45* sloped floor if you really want to go that route. I don't have that in mine.


3. Shows an overhead view of my bin. Forgot to add the double access door located near the number 3 to allow me into the bin. Those doors are closed when the bin gets filled and leave a 4' tall open space to the bottom of the floor joist so one can climb out of the bin after packing it full.

When the bin gets filled, I leave about 18" of vertical height in the removable 2x4 's shown in fig 1. The bin self feeds the auger for quite a long time. As the level goes down, I start shoving coal from in front of the access doors towards the dog house stacking it up high above it. And continue to shovel as the level goes down. The 2x4-s allow me to empty the bin down to about 1/2 to 1 ton before requiring a refill.

4. Shows hot to put a barrel over the auger. Set it up on cement blocks so the coal can feed from the sides when the bin is full. 1 thing I noticed with this setup is that as the bin goes down, you constantly have to be shoveling coal into the barrel.

The shoveling that I do takes all of about 5 minutes 1 times per week.



Rick
Rick 386
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA 260 heating both sides of twin farmhouse
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: LL Hyfire II w/ coaltrol in garage
Coal Size/Type: Pea in AA 260, Rice in LL Hyfire II
Other Heating: Gas fired infared at work

Re: design for feeding from bin

PostBy: vermontday On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:58 pm

Another requirement for using skids is having a low angle auger that the skids will not hit when set on the auger box.

Also, the pallet jack has to come in from the opposite end of the skid that the auger goes under and it has to have enough room to pull the pallet jack out from under the skid. The result is you need a fairly long amount of room in one direction.
vermontday
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM 520

Re: design for feeding from bin

PostBy: Lu47Dan On: Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:35 pm

Plumber, have you thought of putting the bin outside the basement? Than have a chute that allows you fill a smaller bin in the basement that you can fill when you need to.
Dan.
Lu47Dan
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Sears circulator air tight stove.
Other Heating: Crown 115,000 BTU oil fired boiler(house) Weil Mclain 150,000BTU oil fired boiler(Shop)