SS Chimney Liners

Re: SS Chimney Liners

PostBy: J F Graham On: Fri Mar 21, 2014 6:50 pm

Mozz, you're missing the point my friend. All I am advocating is that if your particular situation might require a liner, this place might make good down the road. Few others do. Again I will NEVER advocate SS over masonry. Hell I'd be cutting my own throat. However I have read thread after thread where ss pipe has rotted and our members have had NO course of recovery.. My initial entry was only and solely only to help this GREAT membership!!!!!!! Absolutely no other agenda.
Jim
J F Graham
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 160
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Pacific Energy wood stove / oil baseboard

Re: SS Chimney Liners

PostBy: Lightning On: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:06 pm

Hi Jim, I think its a case of SS liners having a bad rap.. #1 home owners taken advantage of by so called chimney experts forcing their sale #2 SS liner failing early #3 home owner's guaranteed liner is void for what ever reason.

I understand your intentions are good.. :)
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: SS Chimney Liners

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:12 pm

I'm waiting for SMITTY to post his chimney pic's.....................smelling salts please! :stretcher:

I Dare an inspector to step on his compound!
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly coat rack
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace


Re: SS Chimney Liners

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:17 pm

JF, I agree 100% "IF" a liner is needed as a LAST resort-I get it. Just sharing from experience, as we both have, that I've never seen that situation & I'm talkin on windy hilltops, deep valleys, etc. Once again, it's your projected job, just sayin that if it were me, I'd have to try it without the liner before going the SS route & I know that requires quite a bit of extra work. Bottom line was already stated---SS & coal burning don't mix well. No offense taken here my friend, again, just sharing my experience which ain't all that long coal wise in the grand scope of things ;)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: SS Chimney Liners

PostBy: J F Graham On: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:55 pm

Fred' Could you lend me a bit of " hill billy guidance", as we are both from the same farmers cloth :D I don't doubt your redneck wisdom; but if you could enlighten me as to how a 28.28 sq in "of draft in a closed chimney IE6"liner can be equivalent to an8by 12=96 sqin'.clay flue I strongly feel that this would be extremely dangerous.
respectfully
Jim
J F Graham
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 160
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Pacific Energy wood stove / oil baseboard

Re: SS Chimney Liners

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:59 pm

JF, I'm not real into the didactic end of things, I just run with if something works safely & functionally, I'm in-- I tend to stay away from most of the new fangled throw away stuff
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: SS Chimney Liners

PostBy: J F Graham On: Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:43 pm

guys appreciate the input. I'm signing off for the night all input was greatly appreciated . F F I'm too old of a cat to be screwed by a kitten :D But you can keep on trying. Will hopefully correspond in AM good lord willing!!
PS: "Good night MsCalabash whever you are"
J F Graham
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Harman SF 160
Coal Size/Type: Nut
Other Heating: Pacific Energy wood stove / oil baseboard

Re: SS Chimney Liners

PostBy: freetown fred On: Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:25 pm

JF, hell son, you ain't hardly old YET! ;)
freetown fred
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: HITZER 50-93
Coal Size/Type: BLASCHAK Nut/Stove mix

Re: SS Chimney Liners

PostBy: Berlin On: Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:24 am

If a chimney is built to the proper height and height in relation to the home - it will draft. An 8/12 fireplace flue is not "too big" for an appliance with a 6" outlet - an 8/12 flue, if appropriately high, will work just fine; 16/16 or 20/20 - you might have an issue. There are VASTLY more code enforcement officers, csia pros, and others who don't understand the first thing about chimneys than those that do.

Nothing you've read on here about stainless liners is "overblown". I'm rather surprised to hear that with 99.99% of the lemmings out there pushing stainless liners (including coal stove mfg'rs and others that should know better) in the face of evidence that they're not appropriately durable for all fuels. I've explained in a number of posts the mechanism of failure for stainless liners, I've talked about what I've seen, and a number of other members on this site have documented failures. Many more are in the process of failing right now - those failures have not yet been seen, but they will be.
Berlin
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Will-Burt Combustioneer 77B
Coal Size/Type: Ohio BITUMINOUS pea stoker coal

Re: SS Chimney Liners

PostBy: scalabro On: Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:45 am

Berlin wrote:If a chimney is built to the proper height and height in relation to the home - it will draft. An 8/12 fireplace flue is not "too big" for an appliance with a 6" outlet - an 8/12 flue, if appropriately high, will work just fine; 16/16 or 20/20 - you might have an issue. There are VASTLY more code enforcement officers, csia pros, and others who don't understand the first thing about chimneys than those that do.

Nothing you've read on here about stainless liners is "overblown". I'm rather surprised to hear that with 99.99% of the lemmings out there pushing stainless liners (including coal stove mfg'rs and others that should know better) in the face of evidence that they're not appropriately durable for all fuels. I've explained in a number of posts the mechanism of failure for stainless liners, I've talked about what I've seen, and a number of other members on this site have documented failures. Many more are in the process of failing right now - those failures have not yet been seen, but they will be.


Sorry bro but that's just a little too much of a generalization for me.

That is a stupid statement to make about all chimneys, you should know better as a mod.

My chimney is 23 ft tall 1/2 inside 1/2 outside. It has either 9x13 or 8 & 1/2 x 13 clay tiles, it did not draft my Harman MKII anywhere near as well as the 6in pipe.

In my install that is a FACT.

I'm continually amazed at my Crawfords 100+ year old ash pan that is in perfect shape, or for that matter the base pan. One is gray iron the other is mild sheet steel and both have been in direct contact with the EVIL coal ash almost their entire life, ROTFLMAO!

YES the folks here DO exaggerate the problems with SS liners.

The simple FACT is, if a 316 or AL29 is properly installed, operated, and maintained, it will last longer than most people own their homes.

Plus I could NOT use my chimney as is, the building inspector required me to have it, what is so hard for folks on here to understand that? If folks here don't care if they don't have a permit that's your business, but I have way too much blood, sweat & treasure tied up in my house to do it half assed.

Having ranted, would I like to have a 100 + year chimney? Of course.

What would that be? A CORRECTLY SIZED masonry one, period.

:blowup:
scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite.
Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.

Re: SS Chimney Liners

PostBy: oliver power On: Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:51 am

Berlin wrote:If a chimney is built to the proper height and height in relation to the home - it will draft. An 8/12 fireplace flue is not "too big" for an appliance with a 6" outlet - an 8/12 flue, if appropriately high, will work just fine; 16/16 or 20/20 - you might have an issue. There are VASTLY more code enforcement officers, csia pros, and others who don't understand the first thing about chimneys than those that do.

Nothing you've read on here about stainless liners is "overblown". I'm rather surprised to hear that with 99.99% of the lemmings out there pushing stainless liners (including coal stove mfg'rs and others that should know better) in the face of evidence that they're not appropriately durable for all fuels. I've explained in a number of posts the mechanism of failure for stainless liners, I've talked about what I've seen, and a number of other members on this site have documented failures. Many more are in the process of failing right now - those failures have not yet been seen, but they will be.
Yes Berlin , I totally agree with everything you just said. The "BARN METAL" roofing many people are putting on there houses falls in the same failure category; Many so called professionals and / or Officials don't have a clue how these roofs are failing from the start. Yet, everyone is led on with this false 50 year warrantee B.S..
oliver power
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: KEYSTOKER Kaa-2
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93 & 30-95, Vigilant (pre-Vigilant-II)
Baseburners & Antiques: MANY (Mostly when burning wood)
Stove/Furnace Make: HITZER / KEYSTOKER
Stove/Furnace Model: 50-93 & 30-95 , Kaa-2

Re: SS Chimney Liners

PostBy: blrman07 On: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:24 am

Gekko wrote:

Plus I could NOT use my chimney as is, the building inspector required me to have it, what is so hard for folks on here to understand that? If folks here don't care if they don't have a permit that's your business, but I have way too much blood, sweat & treasure tied up in my house to do it half assed.

:blowup:


It pains me to see someone take their own personal experience and say that if everyone else doesn't do it exactly the way they did it then the job is half assed.

It begs questions like:
Why couldn't you use the chimney as is?
Was it inspected by a licensed inspector following a certified process of inspection that required the chimney to meet specific standards?
Under what code could the inspector REQUIRE you to install a SS liner?
Did that code require a solid wall or did it allow a ripple wall?
Did that same code specify what alloy of SS you were REQUIRED to have?
Did that same code specify who was qualified to install noted proper liner?

Do you really believe that ever where everyone lives there are codes REQUIRING you to have a permit to install a coal/wood stove and if they don't get a permit they are putting their home, family, and life in danger????

Way too many times people have someone come out and they are told they are required to do something and never question it but take as "gospel truth." I spent 27 years as a state licensed boiler inspector on boilers and pressure vessels. I ran across total jerks who called themselves building inspectors and were requiring people to do things that were never code mandated, never showed up in any code book; it was just something they made a requirement with no backup from code books or experts at all.

Geeze guys a building code inspector who tells you that you have to spend a rear posterior load of money and you don't ask the simple question of " What code is it that requires this so I can read it and make sure I'm following it correctly?"

The onus is on you not anyone else and if you don't ask some basic questions then get out your checkbook.

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pa.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, using a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly stove in the church
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: SS Chimney Liners

PostBy: McGiever On: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:25 am

People there is no "QUICK FIX" w/ a SS liner.
IF, after some years you would just happen to have video exam of liner's condition and discovered it deterrorating and liner hadn't already perforated and collapsed on itself blocking most flue gases from exiting the home, you'd still have some warranty claim "hoops" to jump through. :roll:

Question...How many people have SS liner installed w/ insulation over the liner?

Another note, if the warranty conditions WERE found to be met, perhaps the cost of the replacement labor for the removal, the re-insulation and the re-installation could be inflated to perhaps include most if not all of the new replacement liner's cost. :evil: Not to say your several weeks of waiting for schedueling job during winter weather for being able to work on snow covered roof.

Point is...IF warranty is met/honored...It ain't no slam dunk!

Geko, Please do report back to us in 10 years with an update.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: SS Chimney Liners

PostBy: titleist1 On: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:30 am

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titleist1
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman Mag Stoker (old style) one in basement, one in workshop
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III on standby for long power outages
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite; Nut/Anthracite

Re: SS Chimney Liners

PostBy: scalabro On: Sat Mar 22, 2014 9:36 am

blrman07 wrote:
Gekko wrote:

Plus I could NOT use my chimney as is, the building inspector required me to have it, what is so hard for folks on here to understand that? If folks here don't care if they don't have a permit that's your business, but I have way too much blood, sweat & treasure tied up in my house to do it half assed.

:blowup:


It pains me to see someone take their own personal experience and say that if everyone else doesn't do it exactly the way they did it then the job is half assed.

It begs questions like:
Why couldn't you use the chimney as is?

Did you read my post?

Was it inspected by a licensed inspector following a certified process of inspection that required the chimney to meet specific standards?

Yes, did you read my post?

Under what code could the inspector REQUIRE you to install a SS liner?
Did that code require a solid wall or did it allow a ripple wall?
Did that same code specify what alloy of SS you were REQUIRED to have?
Did that same code specify who was qualified to install noted proper liner?

Do you really believe that ever where everyone lives there are codes REQUIRING you to have a permit to install a coal/wood stove and if they don't get a permit they are putting their home, family, and life in danger????

Way too many times people have someone come out and they are told they are required to do something and never question it but take as "gospel truth." I spent 27 years as a state licensed boiler inspector on boilers and pressure vessels. I ran across total jerks who called themselves building inspectors and were requiring people to do things that were never code mandated, never showed up in any code book; it was just something they made a requirement with no backup from code books or experts at all.

Geeze guys a building code inspector who tells you that you have to spend a rear posterior load of money and you don't ask the simple question of " What code is it that requires this so I can read it and make sure I'm following it correctly?"

The onus is on you not anyone else and if you don't ask some basic questions then get out your checkbook.


You guys all make me laugh with your tough guy attitudes!... I'll tell that inspector what to shove it....sure. Lots of yapping going on here, lol!


Render to Ceasar what is Ceasar's.....right Rev?

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pa.
scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite.
Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.