Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

PostBy: Crow Horse On: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:11 am

I recently ran into a rather frustrating problem with my hand fired unit. It appears that the ash eventually chokes out the burn, even after rodding and shaking. It was going well, usually 3-4 days on a burn till it got to the choke point which would require me to clean it out completely and start new. Now it seems that my burns are much shorter and require more attention to ash removal. If not, it dies. I try to keep my method of rodding and shaking consistent. Could it be the coal? I'm using chestnut and it seems that there is a huge variation in size, and the smaller the size the more issues I have. Could this be the issue or is it pilot error and I need to go back to flight school?

Edit* I forgot to mention that when the burn chokes off I'm left with a boatload of unburned, half burned coal and clinkers...... I sort through picking out the obvious unburned and half burned coal, but some large clinkers when broken open appear to be partially burned coal.....
Crow Horse
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Golden Flame
Coal Size/Type: chestnut
Other Heating: kero

Re: Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

PostBy: buck24 On: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:57 am

I don't think you should go back to flight school but you may have to make some adjustments. You may have to give your stove a little more air. If your getting 3 or 4 days with a good burn , why should the 5th day be any different :?: After you give the stove a good shakedown and add the new coal to the stove, and she is burning good give her 3 pokes from the top. One in the middle, one on the left side, one on the right side from the top of the coal to the grates. This gives a little more air flow from the bottom up. See if it makes a difference.
buck24
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: New Buck Corp. / MODEL 24 COAL
Coal Size/Type: Pea, Nut / Anthracite

Re: Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:21 am

With the warmer weather the stove might not be able to sustain a less hot fire. A more compact fire box will work better at low output. You should see a difference with the round fire pot of the Chubby.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

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Re: Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

PostBy: Wanna Bee On: Sun Mar 23, 2014 10:38 am

Are you leaving the ash door open for a little bit at tending time?
I find when I run a low slow burn in my box stove. I need to bring it up to a full burn during daily shake downs.(24 hr tending schedule) Don't expect it to run without livening it up on occasion.

I did this same thing when I first started burning coal. Everyone warned about the dangers of leaving the ash door open for any amount of time. I would shake without livening the fire and had the same issues with four day burns. I can now go two or even three days between shakes just by adding coal and leaving her run for a few minutes. Ash comes out like talcum powder.
Wanna Bee
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Grander Stove Co.
Stove/Furnace Model: Royal Bride

Re: Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

PostBy: Hambden Bob On: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:00 am

The Chubby Breathing Easy On Nut Coal. By This Time Next Year,We'll Be Getting Your First Year's Burn Report. Also,We'll Be Getting A Very Happy And Warm Crow Report. Keep Us Posted On How That :up: Chubby Resurrection Is Coming Along.
Hambden Bob
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Harman 1998 Magnum Stoker
Coal Size/Type: Rice-A-Roni !

Re: Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

PostBy: lowfog01 On: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:10 am

Wanna Bee wrote:Are you leaving the ash door open for a little bit at tending time?
I find when I run a low slow burn in my box stove. I need to bring it up to a full burn during daily shake downs.(24 hr tending schedule) Don't expect it to run without livening it up on occasion...Everyone warned about the dangers of leaving the ash door open for any amount of time.


I started out leaving the ash door open to liven up the fire while reloading, too. That always bothered me even though I'd set a timer. I stopped that this year. Now I open the air control valve a little wider an half hour or so before I'm ready to actually load and refresh the stove. That allows the fire to get hot but limits the dangers involved with leaving the ashdoor open. If I get involved with something else and forget, I'm not going to have a run away fire; my room may get hot but that's easy to fix.

The change has really made tending my stoves easier and more relaxed for me. Take care, Lisa
lowfog01
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Mark II & Mark I
Coal Size/Type: nut/pea

Re: Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

PostBy: Crow Horse On: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:17 am

Hambden Bob wrote:The Chubby Breathing Easy On Nut Coal. By This Time Next Year,We'll Be Getting Your First Year's Burn Report. Also,We'll Be Getting A Very Happy And Warm Crow Report. Keep Us Posted On How That :up: Chubby Resurrection Is Coming Along.


Thanks for all the advice! With the change in some of the variables, I need to adjust my tending methods......

The Chubby is going slow but I don't want to rush it. Other than the cleaning/painting/polishing that still needs to be done, I want to resolve the worn hole in the stove body that the shaker rod pulls through. Right now, I'll probably build up the worn edge of it, grind flat, then weld on a "washer" that I'll make from 1/8" steel. I need to get a new shaker rod prior to proceeding to make sure everything fits and operates correctly. I'm still thinking on installing a replaceable bushing in the "washer" so when it is worn it's an easy fix. I'm thinking this bushing will need to be oversized (ID) because the shaker rod doesn't move perfectly linear....
Crow Horse
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Golden Flame
Coal Size/Type: chestnut
Other Heating: kero

Re: Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

PostBy: Lightning On: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:18 am

franco b wrote:With the warmer weather the stove might not be able to sustain a less hot fire.


I agree, if you are trying to achieve a slower/cooler burn thru warm weather then draft pressure is probably getting too weak. Do you have a manometer installed?

During slower/cooler warm weather burns, I'll give the fire box more secondary air. The extra secondary air doesn't aid in combustion with a low burn, instead the extra heated air mass going up the chimney keeps the draft moving along..

A manometer would help you diagnose the problem.
It sounds more like a drafting issue instead of a shake and rodding issue.. :D
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

PostBy: franco b On: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:22 am

Crow Horse wrote: I'm thinking this bushing will need to be oversized (ID) because the shaker rod doesn't move perfectly linear.

Because the bushing needs to be over sized it might be better to just have a loose fender washer on the rod that you push up to close the hole after shaking.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood Modern Oak 114
Coal Size/Type: nut and pea

Re: Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

PostBy: Dennis On: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:59 am

Crow Horse wrote:Edit* I forgot to mention that when the burn chokes off I'm left with a boatload of unburned, half burned coal and clinkers...... I sort through picking out the obvious unburned and half burned coal, but some large clinkers when broken open appear to be partially burned coal.....

You might be burning too hot,if your having clinkers.Try to use less air and if it do'es choke out,try to diesect the problem by carefully removing the unburnt coal from the top and see if you have clinkers at the grates stopping the ash flow
Dennis
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: AHS/WOC55-multi-fuel/wood,oil,coal
Coal Size/Type: Anthracite/stove size

Re: Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

PostBy: Crow Horse On: Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:29 pm

I really do need to install a manometer. That will identify or not the problem being draft.
The hottest I ran it was a little over 500°. Usually try to stay around 400° to 450°......
Crow Horse
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Golden Flame
Coal Size/Type: chestnut
Other Heating: kero

Re: Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

PostBy: Crow Horse On: Sun Mar 23, 2014 3:51 pm

franco b wrote:With the warmer weather the stove might not be able to sustain a less hot fire. A more compact fire box will work better at low output. You should see a difference with the round fire pot of the Chubby.


I'm now thinking this could be true and the draft isn't sufficient enough with a cooler fire. This morning I restarted, ran it till it was about 400° or so then idled it down. Several hours later it was nearly out and didn't bother to try and resuscitate it. I just started over and will run it hotter to see what effect that will have. I think that when I idle it down it can no longer create the draft required to sustain the burn. A mano will tell me exactly if that is the issue...

When I restart with wood, there is quite a draft when the wood is fully involved....
Crow Horse
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Golden Flame
Coal Size/Type: chestnut
Other Heating: kero

Re: Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

PostBy: Lightning On: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:42 pm

Crow Horse wrote: This morning I restarted, ran it till it was about 400° or so then idled it down. Several hours later it was nearly out


Crow Horse wrote:When I restart with wood, there is quite a draft when the wood is fully involved....


These two observations are pointing to a low draft condition when you try to achieve a slower cooler burn rate.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sun Mar 23, 2014 4:56 pm

I agree with lightning. When I had a hand fired and the outside temps were supposed to go up considerably while I wasn't home, I'd actually burn the fire hotter, with more primary air so I wouldn't lose draft. I'd turn the convection fan down a bit too to keep the house comfortable and the heat in the stove. If the difference between inside and outside temps drops, the draft naturally drops as well.
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Pilot Error Is It The Coal...??

PostBy: Crow Horse On: Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:38 pm

Thank you all, for the great advice. I've been running it a while now with the primary wide open and the MPD barely open and it's burning well. As I'm putting all the advice together in a manner I can understand, as outside temps rise, draft reduces proportionally. In order to compensate for this reduced draft, opening up the primary air to raise the burn temp to create a larger temperature difference between burn temp and outside temp. Have I got it right?

If I run it in this manner, I should have less issues with half burned coal jamming the shaker up although I could reach AFT that might block the grates on a long untouched burns.

This is an interesting variation of a Rubik's cube.....
Crow Horse
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Golden Flame
Coal Size/Type: chestnut
Other Heating: kero

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