Boiler is on order

Re: Boiler is on order

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:16 am

ShawnTRD wrote:My thread has turned into a math war. :?


Well, you needed something to do while you wait for the shiny new Keystoker to arrive, right?

And besides, now you have a real flavor for how this board works...it's just like family....anything can start a war at any time! :D

And to add my two cents: I am a retailer and I can say with certainty that all five gallon pails are not created equally! ;)

Check your driveway sealer pails, in particular....4.75 gallons! Mud and chain pails are created for capacity by weight. Paint pails should still be fivers even though mixing base labels will list a smaller liquid capacity (they leave room for colorants). I don't think it wise to assume the capacity to be greater than five gallons by much, if any.
mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M

Re: Boiler is on order

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:08 am

I filled a 5 gallon Home Depot orange plastic pail (made by Encore) to right near the brim with water yesterday and it weighed 47 lbs. Allowing half a pound for the pail itself leaves 46.5 lbs. of water. Straight from the well our water was at about 50 degrees, and the density of water at 50 degrees F. indicates a weight of 8.343 lbs./gal.

46.5 / 8.343 = 5.57 gallons.

Call it 5.6 gallons to the very top lip.
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: Boiler is on order

PostBy: PRengert On: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:20 pm

I use a 3 gallon galv metal pail. The thin rim makes scooping easier than the plastic ones.

Call me a rebel. :alone:
PRengert
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker K6

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Boiler is on order

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:37 pm

lsayre wrote:I filled a 5 gallon Home Depot orange plastic pail (made by Encore) to right near the brim with water yesterday and it weighed 47 lbs. Allowing half a pound for the pail itself leaves 46.5 lbs. of water. Straight from the well our water was at about 50 degrees, and the density of water at 50 degrees F. indicates a weight of 8.343 lbs./gal.

46.5 / 8.343 = 5.57 gallons.

Call it 5.6 gallons to the very top lip.


Larry, I am glad you went through the exercise. Now we know. I stand corrected on the volume of YOUR pail. Just be wary of the volume of OTHER "five gallon pails".
Manufacturers like to play product sizing games. You bought an empty pail that was a legit fiver. Some people re-use pails that once carried other product. That's all I am saying.

No one is questioning your ability at math and science. (btw, rice anthracite should have a smaller volume than the average 40cu ft per ton we use as a rule of thumb for building coal bins) I always appreciate your perspective. :)
mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M

Re: Boiler is on order

PostBy: Lightning On: Mon Apr 07, 2014 6:00 pm

Omg.. he opened up the can of worms with the volume/size thing haha. I thought the same thing.. :lol: Meaning, I thought 100 pounds of rice would take up slightly less space than a 100 pounds of stove size. I've never tried a comparison.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Boiler is on order

PostBy: lsayre On: Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:54 pm

Hey Lighting, how come you have proved that you can comfortably stuff more coal into less space than even I was recommending will be required, yet I'm the one who gets bashed for saying less space is actually required than most (though not you of course) will suggest? :lol:
lsayre
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Stockton Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Re: Boiler is on order

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:15 pm

Lightning wrote:Omg.. he opened up the can of worms with the volume/size thing haha. I thought the same thing.. :lol: Meaning, I thought 100 pounds of rice would take up slightly less space than a 100 pounds of stove size. I've never tried a comparison.



I thought it is the other way around. Rice coal will have more volume / weight.
Flyer5
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Leisure Line WL110
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Leisure Line Pioneer

Re: Boiler is on order

PostBy: anthony7812 On: Tue Apr 08, 2014 8:23 am

I could be wrong, but say you have 2 50 gallon pales and you fill one with stove and one with rice. Im saying the rice would be heavier due to being able to "fit" more coal. Im no math wiz but air is lighter than coal so with the stove coal leaving air gaps would cause the weight to be lighter.
anthony7812
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: VanWert VA 400
Coal Size/Type: Buck/Nut/Anthracite

Re: Boiler is on order

PostBy: ShawnTRD On: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:23 am

Think placing my KA6 on 4 - 16 in. x 8 in. x 4 in. Concrete Block will work?
ShawnTRD
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA6 (New in April 2014)
Other Heating: Weil Mclain WGO-2 (Net 75k BTU)

Re: Boiler is on order

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:25 am

ShawnTRD wrote:Think placing my KA6 on 4 - 16 in. x 8 in. x 4 in. Concrete Block will work?


Yes, and it is a good idea.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Boiler is on order

PostBy: Rob R. On: Tue Apr 08, 2014 11:26 am

anthony7812 wrote:I could be wrong, but say you have 2 50 gallon pales and you fill one with stove and one with rice. Im saying the rice would be heavier due to being able to "fit" more coal. Im no math wiz but air is lighter than coal so with the stove coal leaving air gaps would cause the weight to be lighter.


Density/Specific Volume of Anthracite Grades
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Boiler is on order

PostBy: PRengert On: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:07 pm

ShawnTRD wrote:Think placing my KA6 on 4 - 16 in. x 8 in. x 4 in. Concrete Block will work?


The hopper is pretty high already so you might regret another 4 inches. I used 2" pavers.
PRengert
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker K6

Re: Boiler is on order

PostBy: mikeandgerry On: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:56 pm

Lightning wrote:Omg.. he opened up the can of worms with the volume/size thing haha. I thought the same thing.. :lol: Meaning, I thought 100 pounds of rice would take up slightly less space than a 100 pounds of stove size. I've never tried a comparison.


Isayre wrote:Hey Lighting, how come you have proved that you can comfortably stuff more coal into less space than even I was recommending will be required, yet I'm the one who gets bashed for saying less space is actually required than most (though not you of course) will suggest? :lol:


Well, I also always thought that rice coal would take up less volume per ton than stove coal, just not as much less as Isayre was saying, because I was questioning his calculation because of the estimate of the size of the pail he was using, knowing that pails can vary. I wasn't questioning his method. Since the pail he was using actually was actually bigger than he originally estimated, then using that new data in his formula (bold print are the changes):

Isayre wrote:I typically get ~41 lbs. into a filled level to the brim Home Depot brand orange 5 gallon plastic pail.

If you assume that a filled to the brim 5 gallon pail is actually holding about 5.57 gallons to the brim, then:

41 / 5.57 = 7.36 lbs/gallon

7.4805 gallons per cubic foot x 7.36 lbs./gallon = 55.05 lbs. per cubic foot

4 tons = 8,000 lbs.

8,000 /55.05 = 145 cubic feet


I am not sure what margin of error Larry would want to apply to that as he did previously. The result above is the same as his calculation plus his ballpark error margin. If you used the same 6 cu ft margin of error then he would estimate the 4 tons of pea to be 151 cubic feet.
I found in my notes from setting up my coal bin seven years ago, a volume figure of 38 cubic feet per ton for pea coal and that is the figure I used for my bin calculations. I am not sure where that figure came from but using that figure for an estimate yields a volume of 152 cubic feet for four tons of pea coal.

Larry and I are not far off.

I have some pea and some buckwheat, a "five gallon pail" that I will measure, and a scale. I will go through the exercise also and we will get to the bottom of the matter.
mikeandgerry
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman-Anderson Anthratube 130-M

Re: Boiler is on order

PostBy: Dirty Steve On: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:26 pm

ShawnTRD,

Welcome to the wonderful adventure of coal and coal boilers. I live in 13081 and have burned coal through a KA-6 for 4 seasons now. Has save me a ton of money. With that garage under your house, you will keep many of your lost BTU's in your structure which is a plus. Mine is my basement also. It's all good. What is your chimney? Mine is masonary. I have burned all summer before. I move my coal with two shop vac and a pair of dust chambers. That is for a different time. Get the boiler, get it installed before next fall! Good luck!
Dirty Steve
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice
Other Heating: Oil- Off line
Stove/Furnace Make: Keystoker
Stove/Furnace Model: KA-6

Re: Boiler is on order

PostBy: ShawnTRD On: Tue Apr 08, 2014 2:36 pm

Hey Steve
I'm having a chimney built this summer or fall. I can't wait for the learning curve to start going up.
ShawnTRD
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA6 (New in April 2014)
Other Heating: Weil Mclain WGO-2 (Net 75k BTU)

Visit Lehigh Anthracite