47 posts • Page **1** of **4** • **1**, 2, 3, 4

So I ordered the Keystoker KA6 today. I get a free ton on 100# bags of rice coal. Going to do bags for the first year and see how I like that. But the rest will be 50# bags. How big of a area should expect 4 ton to take up? No higher then 5 feet.

- ShawnTRD
**Stoker Coal Boiler:**Keystoker KA6 (New in April 2014)**Other Heating:**Weil Mclain WGO-2 (Net 75k BTU)

4 tons should require about 145 cubic feet of storage space.

- lsayre
**Stoker Coal Boiler:**AHS S130 Coal Gun**Coal Size/Type:**Stockton Anthracite Pea**Other Heating:**Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

About how big are the bags? Length and width.

- ShawnTRD
**Stoker Coal Boiler:**Keystoker KA6 (New in April 2014)**Other Heating:**Weil Mclain WGO-2 (Net 75k BTU)

Ballpark area should be about 43 cu ft /ton or 172 cu ft.......unless Larry has some secret lightweight coal I don't know about. 100 lb bags....how rugged are you? Good health ins? Do you enjoy back surgery?....knee....hip....... Work smarter, not harder. I remember the days when they unloaded train cars of grain in 100 lb sacks. Took 2 BIG guys 7 hrs. No One screwed with those fellows.....6'6" 300lbs. Gentle Giants....never complained about a thing. Both gone at 68 and 72 yrs.......lung cancer.

- whistlenut
**Stoker Coal Boiler:**AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert**Hand Fed Coal Boiler:**Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert**Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace:**Yellow Flame**Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove:**Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,**Hand Fed Coal Stove:**Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2**Hand Fed Coal Furnace:**Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.**Coal Size/Type:**Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove**Other Heating:**Oil HWBB

I typically get ~41 lbs. into a filled level to the brim Home Depot brand orange 5 gallon plastic pail.

If you assume that a filled to the brim 5 gallon pail is actually holding about 5-1/3 gallons to the brim, then:

41 / 5.333 = 7.69 lbs/gallon

7.4805 gallons per cubic foot x 7.69 lbs./gallon = 57.5 lbs. per cubic foot

4 tons = 8,000 lbs.

8,000 /57.5 = 139 cubic feet

Add a few cubic feet of safety margin for less dense coal than I've been getting and I called it 145 cubic feet for 4 tons.

If you assume that a filled to the brim 5 gallon pail is actually holding about 5-1/3 gallons to the brim, then:

41 / 5.333 = 7.69 lbs/gallon

7.4805 gallons per cubic foot x 7.69 lbs./gallon = 57.5 lbs. per cubic foot

4 tons = 8,000 lbs.

8,000 /57.5 = 139 cubic feet

Add a few cubic feet of safety margin for less dense coal than I've been getting and I called it 145 cubic feet for 4 tons.

- lsayre
**Stoker Coal Boiler:**AHS S130 Coal Gun**Coal Size/Type:**Stockton Anthracite Pea**Other Heating:**Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

Pallet of bagged coal is about 4' square.

- Rob R.
**Stoker Coal Boiler:**EFM DF520**Hand Fed Coal Stove:**Hitzer 50-93**Coal Size/Type:**Lehigh Rice**Other Heating:**Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

lsayre wrote:I typically get ~41 lbs. into a filled level to the brim Home Depot brand orange 5 gallon plastic pail.

If you assume that a filled to the brim 5 gallon pail is actually holding about 5-1/3 gallons to the brim, then:

41 / 5.333 = 7.69 lbs/gallon

7.4805 gallons per cubic foot x 7.69 lbs./gallon = 57.5 lbs. per cubic foot

4 tons = 8,000 lbs.

8,000 /57.5 = 139 cubic feet

Add a few cubic feet of safety margin for less dense coal than I've been getting and I called it 145 cubic feet for 4 tons.

Larry, for a guy who takes his calculations to the fourth decimal place, that assumption about the actual capacity of the pail seems out of character. Have you considered measuring the actual capacity of the pail (e.g., with a measured amount of water) so your computations are a little more robust? Your numbers here say that you can fit a ton into less than 35 cubic feet; which seems pretty low.

Mike

- Pacowy
**Stoker Coal Boiler:**H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker**Coal Size/Type:**Buckwheat/anthracite

I calculated my nut coal to take up 33-34 cubic feet per ton... by measuring total weight against dimensions within a half inch..

- Lightning
**Hand Fed Coal Furnace:**Clayton 1537G**Coal Size/Type:**Nut/Stove Size Mix

Congratulations on ur new boiler!!!!

- Vampiro
**Stoker Coal Boiler:**Axeman Anderson S260**Hand Fed Coal Boiler:**#45 BAD HWH**Hand Fed Coal Stove:**Harman Mk1**Coal Size/Type:**Anthracite, Pea Coal**Other Heating:**POS gas boiler

ShawnTRD wrote:So I ordered the Keystoker KA6 today.

Hey congratulations Shawn!

- anthony7812
**Stoker Coal Boiler:**VanWert VA 400**Coal Size/Type:**Buck/Nut/Anthracite

Thanks guys.

Next comes the install. Any good detailed threads on installing a boiler with DHW?

Next comes the install. Any good detailed threads on installing a boiler with DHW?

- ShawnTRD
**Stoker Coal Boiler:**Keystoker KA6 (New in April 2014)**Other Heating:**Weil Mclain WGO-2 (Net 75k BTU)

Although I have to admit that I've never measured the volume of a 5 gallon plastic pail that is full to the brim, I do know that per DOT regulations you can't fill a pail legally to where it has less than 1" of air space remaining at the top, and they must be a full legal 5 gallons to that point if they are advertised as 5 gallon pails.

Assuming 13" in diameter and 1 inch deep to the 5 gallon line, that is 132.7 cubic inches of head space. That equals 0.144 gallons of head space. So allowing for a bit of error perhaps I should have assumed that a 5 gallon pail has 5.15 gallons of capacity full level to the top.

That would bring a pail with 41 lbs. of coal in it to 7.96 lbs per gallon, and 59.55 lbs per cubic foot.

8,000/59.55 = 134.3 cubic feet required to hold 4 tons.

But if my error is in the opposite direction by about the same amount and therefore a 5 gallon plastic pail actually holds 5.5 gallons when full level to the top then for 41 lbs. that is 7.45 lbs. per gallon, and that comes to 55.7 pounds per cubic foot.

In that case 8,000/55.7 = 143.6 cubic feet to hold 4 tons (which is still below my initial advice to assume that 145 cubic feet are required here).

These figures are for anthracite pea.

Assuming 13" in diameter and 1 inch deep to the 5 gallon line, that is 132.7 cubic inches of head space. That equals 0.144 gallons of head space. So allowing for a bit of error perhaps I should have assumed that a 5 gallon pail has 5.15 gallons of capacity full level to the top.

That would bring a pail with 41 lbs. of coal in it to 7.96 lbs per gallon, and 59.55 lbs per cubic foot.

8,000/59.55 = 134.3 cubic feet required to hold 4 tons.

But if my error is in the opposite direction by about the same amount and therefore a 5 gallon plastic pail actually holds 5.5 gallons when full level to the top then for 41 lbs. that is 7.45 lbs. per gallon, and that comes to 55.7 pounds per cubic foot.

In that case 8,000/55.7 = 143.6 cubic feet to hold 4 tons (which is still below my initial advice to assume that 145 cubic feet are required here).

These figures are for anthracite pea.

Last edited by lsayre on Sat Apr 05, 2014 4:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

- lsayre
**Stoker Coal Boiler:**AHS S130 Coal Gun**Coal Size/Type:**Stockton Anthracite Pea**Other Heating:**Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW)

ShawnTRD wrote:So I ordered the Keystoker KA6 today.

I get a free ton on 100# bags of rice coal.

Going to do bags for the first year and see how I like that.

But the rest will be 50# bags.

How big of a area should expect 4 ton to take up?

No higher then 5 feet.

UMMM,

You must have been at Warners the same time I was Shawn.

It all depends on whether "said" bags were tied with a

millers knot and or if they are the less expensive woven polyester open mouth sacks

with the sewn base base.

If they were tied with a millers knot, know that they will be very unweildy

and hard to stack at first BECAUSE the open mouth bag has

been tied in the center and the bag cannot settle flat due to the

pinching and tying of the bag at the center. the same goes for the

fifty pound bags if they are tied also.

You will have to compromise and stand them up one bag high which will be

much less aggravating and reduce the chance of spillage and bag breakage.

plan on at least 9 by 9 feet for every ton, one bag high with the bags stored vertical.

Last edited by lzaharis on Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

- lzaharis
**Stove/Furnace Make:**Switzer**Stove/Furnace Model:**CWW100 100,000 btu

lzaharis wrote: You will have to compromise and stand them up one bag high which will be

much less aggravating and reduce the chance of spillage and bag breakage.

plan on at least 9 by 9 feet for every ton, one bag high with the bags stored vertical.

Instead of 324 sf taken up by bags, you might consider building a 4x8x5'H bin, which would hold the 4 tons with a much smaller footprint. As whistlenut mentioned, it's not going to be any fun lifting those big bags to fill the hopper on a KA-6, so just use them to fill a bulk bin.

Mike

- Pacowy
**Stoker Coal Boiler:**H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker**Coal Size/Type:**Buckwheat/anthracite

This year is for testing. If I don't like the bags my plan next year is to put a bin outside and auger it into the KA6 hopper.

- ShawnTRD
**Stoker Coal Boiler:**Keystoker KA6 (New in April 2014)**Other Heating:**Weil Mclain WGO-2 (Net 75k BTU)

47 posts • Page **1** of **4** • **1**, 2, 3, 4

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