Mano Readings...??

Mano Readings...??

PostBy: Crow Horse On: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:39 pm

I just temporarily installed a # 25 mano and was wondering what #'s I should be striving for. I'm guessing at .03-.06?? I just started the burn and it spiked to over .10 (it's REALLY windy here) and is gradually settling down now to .04-.05 with some fresh coal. Damper is closed and primary air is 75% open. Am I in the ball park or what adjustments should I be looking at?

With it being so windy, the readings were all over the place and I'm guessing that a baro might be in my future... Any thoughts or advice?
Crow Horse
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Golden Flame
Coal Size/Type: chestnut
Other Heating: kero

Re: Mano Readings...??

PostBy: bopper On: Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:33 pm

Check the owners manual and see what they suggest. I have a field controls type RC which is adjustable. I have mine set at .06 using the scale printed on the baro itself. I don't have a manometer.

During the cold spells the Mano will open especially when windy. When it warms up I simply put tin foil over it to help the draft a bit. During these very warm daytime temps I have to crack a window too.

Bopper
bopper
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark I
Coal Size/Type: Nut

Re: Mano Readings...??

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:57 pm

bopper wrote:Check the owners manual and see what they suggest. I have a field controls type RC which is adjustable. I have mine set at .06 using the scale printed on the baro itself. I don't have a manometer.

During the cold spells the Mano will open especially when windy. When it warms up I simply put tin foil over it to help the draft a bit. During these very warm daytime temps I have to crack a window too.

Bopper



Bopper,
I think you mean "baro", not "mano". The "mano" is short for "manometer", a very sensitive gauge that measures air pressure, or vacuum. Many guys here hook them up to their stove pipes so that they only read vacuum to measure how strong the chimney draft is. Since they are a constant reading gauge they don't "open" during high winds. They just show differences in chimney pressure.

Crow.
Mano readings of .04-.06 seem to be the most common mentioned. Your owners manual may suggest the best mano range to adjust the dampers, MPD and/or baro to maintain. Yes, a baro can help adjust for wind pressure induced differeances. Up to a point. Some guys report still getting wild readings with the baro wide open. In other words, depending on your draft conditions, the baro has it's limits of how much it can help.

Paul

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

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Re: Mano Readings...??

PostBy: Crow Horse On: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:05 pm

My stove is pretty old as there isn't any info available for it. Based on what I'm reading off the Mano, my previous settings allowed way too much draft allowing the burn to get too hot and reach AFT. Coupling that with the stoves poor shaker mechanism might explain why at times I was having such difficulty with extended burns.
Crow Horse
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Golden Flame
Coal Size/Type: chestnut
Other Heating: kero

Re: Mano Readings...??

PostBy: Keepaeyeonit On: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:13 pm

Crow Horse,If your stove dose not have a way to control the air based on stove temp(like the Hitzer 50-93 or the DS 1500)then a baro will do the trick.I could not hold a constant temp because of the wind but with a baro its all good now. My stove likes .06 to .07"WC for a hand job(hand fired) I thinks thats high but it runs good you just need to find the right setup for your stove(it may requirer some trial and error)but just stick with it until you find it. Keepaeyeonit
Keepaeyeonit
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 983 insert
Coal Size/Type: Mammoth nut
Other Heating: oil furnace,and a crappy heat pump

Re: Mano Readings...??

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:24 pm

[quote="Crow Horse"]................ Damper is closed and primary air is 75% open. ............ Any thoughts or advice?[/quote]

Hi Crow Horse, have you tried cutting back on the primary in increments noting both temp and draft reading? My thought is less air in may slow down the exit gases, I realize you are using a mpd and small adjustments may help find the sweet spot.
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly coat rack
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Mano Readings...??

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:28 pm

Crow Horse wrote:My stove is pretty old as there isn't any info available for it. Based on what I'm reading off the Mano, my previous settings allowed way too much draft allowing the burn to get too hot and reach AFT. Coupling that with the stoves poor shaker mechanism might explain why at times I was having such difficulty with extended burns.


I hooked up a mano to my kitchen range this year and started testing stove temps verses stack temps and using the MPD to adjust them. Seems the day-time heating sweet spot is about .04. If I keep it at that I'm using a pound or two less coal (out of about 30 lbs a day average) than when I didn't have the mano and I was keeping the MPD wide open. And the stove is a running hotter overall and longer now that I know what to set the MPD to.

Try setting dampers, both primary and MPD to keep it at about .04 - .05 and see if you get good heat output, plus longer burn times.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Mano Readings...??

PostBy: Lightning On: Sat Apr 05, 2014 9:49 pm

Crow Horse wrote:Based on what I'm reading off the Mano, my previous settings allowed way too much draft allowing the burn to get too hot and reach AFT.
I wouldn't blame a strong draft for the clinkering. Clinkering occurs mainly with red ash coal. White ash coal clinkering usually only happens when running her really hot. What I'm trying to say is, its not a strong draft pressure that causes clinkers, its the volume of primary air. Where you pushing the limits of the stove? What color ash does your coal produce?

Anyways, I'm a baro guy.. I think a steady draft pressure makes for the most efficient and predictable burn. Anywhere between a -.03 and -.05 seems to be optimal for most hand fed coal appliances. :)

After a fresh load, open the MPD till it gets burning good. Then close it till the Mano drops to a -.05 with the primary set for a normal burn heat output.. It should settle down a bit after the chimney flue gases cool some. After that, you may need to open the MPD a hair so the mano doesn't run low. "It depends".. :lol: A MPD is really sensitive to your chimney's specific drawing characteristics where a baro will automatically adjust to it, usually.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Mano Readings...??

PostBy: Crow Horse On: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:01 am

Thanks for all the replies....

Where you pushing the limits of the stove? What color ash does your coal produce?


Probably. When it was much colder outside I had the burn going for a couple of days till it choked itself out . Now with warmer temps, I'm having a hell of a time and wasting coal. Frustrating as all get out.

It produces white ash. The samples int he pic are representative of what I'm usually left with. Lots of ash, unburned coal in various states of being burned. I tried to reburn the coal that looked good but this seemed to compound the issue. Did I mention that this is frustrating?

I've tried various techniques in shaking & rodding and where it seemed to be effective before, it no longer is and trying to revive a waning burn for me has been folly.......
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Crow Horse
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Golden Flame
Coal Size/Type: chestnut
Other Heating: kero

Re: Mano Readings...??

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:30 am

Crow Horse wrote:With it being so windy, the readings were all over the place and I'm guessing that a baro might be in my future... Any thoughts or advice?

A baro should be in your future.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Mano Readings...??

PostBy: Lightning On: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:05 am

Crow Horse wrote:Now with warmer temps, I'm having a hell of a time and wasting coal. Frustrating as all get out.
Um could you be more specific?
Hell of a time keeping a fire?
Wasting coal how?

Crow Horse wrote:I've tried various techniques in shaking & rodding and where it seemed to be effective before, it no longer is and trying to revive a waning burn for me has been folly.......
This seems like evidence of loss of draft.
I think you are choking the draft with the MPD.

Where is the probe for your manometer??
It needs to be between the stove and manual pipe damper.
Are you maintaining at least a -.03 to -.05 draft?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Mano Readings...??

PostBy: Crow Horse On: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:23 am

Lightning wrote:Wasting coal how?
I think you are choking the draft with the MPD.
Where is the probe for your manometer??
It needs to be between the stove and manual pipe damper.
Are you maintaining at least a -.03 to -.05 draft?


The mano is between the stove and the MPD so I know that is good.
When the burn chokes out I'm left with a stove full of half burn coal and other goodies. I've been saving that and will sift through it for the coal that is good. I haven't had much luck in reburning some of it.
Now that the winds have died down to "normal" for my location, I've got it set at .05. I opened up the MPD a bit, primary air is set at my normal setting and just cracked open the load door to maintain this setting. I'll see how this works. Stove temp is app. 385° at this point...

Maybe you're right in saying that I'm choking it out by closing the MPD.
Crow Horse
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Golden Flame
Coal Size/Type: chestnut
Other Heating: kero

Re: Mano Readings...??

PostBy: Lightning On: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:43 am

What happens if you close the load door? Manometer won't stay under -.05 with the manual damper closed?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Mano Readings...??

PostBy: Crow Horse On: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:47 am

Lightning wrote:What happens if you close the load door? Manometer won't stay under -.05 with the manual damper closed?


Initially, yes. I needed to open it to keep it at .05. Now I just closed it and it's at .06. Stove is running at 440° presently.....
Crow Horse
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Golden Flame
Coal Size/Type: chestnut
Other Heating: kero

Re: Mano Readings...??

PostBy: Lightning On: Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:52 am

Ok good.. :) keep the load door closed, set your primary combustion air for a normal burn, and adjust your manual damper so you have a -.05... As the chimney cools, start to rotate the manual damper to stay between -.03 to -.05... Does this stove have a bi metallic combustion air control or is it completely manual?

Based on what I've read, it seems you are doing plenty to clear ash so your struggle is most likely a drafting issue. You are loading the coal at least 8-10 inches deep right?
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

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