Illegal Stoves

Illegal Stoves

PostBy: PJT On: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:08 pm

Could someone explain the issue with the combination gas/wood/coal stoves being illegal?

I understand its because the wood/coal exhaust and the gas oven exhaust exit up the same flue is this correct?

If so, when did it become illegal and is there truly a safety issue involved?
PJT
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Magee Royal Oak; Glenwood Modern Oak 116
Other Heating: propane

Re: Illegal Stoves

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:49 pm

Never saw a stove like that nor did I hear they were illegal. Do you have a link or more info?
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea

Re: Illegal Stoves

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:56 pm

Old cookstoves with gas sidearms...
Something needs updating...
the stove hospital in RI had some reference to this...
Emery would be the one to ask the specifics...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

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Re: Illegal Stoves

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:00 pm

PJT is referring to the coal/gas ranges made in the good old days,they had a wood/coal firebox on the left side with 4 burners heated by that firebox,on the right side they had 4 gas burners & under that the oven heated by gas & maybe also by the firebox,i am not positive on all of how they were set up but that should give you a little better idea. I understand you can still use the gas burners but not the gas for the oven,not sure exactly why & hoping for one of the experts to clear all this up.
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Illegal Stoves

PostBy: michaelanthony On: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:17 pm

I'm no expert but I think the conversation kinda' goes like this, ...hey does anyone smell :blowup:
michaelanthony
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant 2310, gold marc box, vogelzang pot belly coat rack
Coal Size/Type: Pea, and a little nut
Other Heating: Very cold FHA oil furnace

Re: Illegal Stoves

PostBy: warminmn On: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:25 pm

If you have an old one its still legal. People wanted them to cook in the house during the summer with gas, then to help heat the house and cook in the winter. There were electric/wood/coal combo's too. There were also incinerators made that would burn anything too, Warm Morning is one of those makers.

Is it the EPA that put a stop to being labeled to burn these? I forget. There are still wood/coal combos made but they arent labeled that way. There are probably electric/wood combos made now but I doubt the gas/wood combos are made in this country anymore. Maybe overseas.
warminmn
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Chubby Junior, Efel Nestor Martin
Coal Size/Type: nut and stove anthracite. Soft coal
Other Heating: wood

Re: Illegal Stoves

PostBy: KLook On: Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:39 pm

There is still one of these stoves in my mothers house. A Home Comfort from the early 50's. I see no problems with it after over 50 years of service....it had a water jackets and provided our hot water to boot. That was discontinued some years ago as the jacket got pin holes. I would love to have a kitchen built around that stove.

kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Illegal Stoves

PostBy: Photog200 On: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:03 am

windyhill4.2 wrote:PJT is referring to the coal/gas ranges made in the good old days,they had a wood/coal firebox on the left side with 4 burners heated by that firebox,on the right side they had 4 gas burners & under that the oven heated by gas & maybe also by the firebox,i am not positive on all of how they were set up but that should give you a little better idea. I understand you can still use the gas burners but not the gas for the oven,not sure exactly why & hoping for one of the experts to clear all this up.


I just retired from the electric and gas company. The guy I worked with told me the reason they are illegal, was because of code. You cannot vent gas into the same chimney as a solid fuel. On those stoves the oven did vent into the same chimney as the wood / coal. That is why you can still use the burners just not the oven. Unless this guy was incorrect or if it was just policy for our company, this is probably the reason. I was the company photographer so what would I know about code. :whistle:
Randy
Photog200
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Colonial Clarion cook stove, Kineo #15 base heater & Geneva Oak Andes #517
Coal Size/Type: Blaschak Chestnut
Other Heating: Electric Baseboard

Re: Illegal Stoves

PostBy: Richard S. On: Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:43 am

PJT wrote:Could someone explain the issue with the combination gas/wood/coal stoves being illegal?

I understand its because the wood/coal exhaust and the gas oven exhaust exit up the same flue is this correct?

If so, when did it become illegal and is there truly a safety issue involved?


The EPA sets emission standards for wood stoves, they just recently upped the anty. If it doesn't meet the emission standards for wood it can't be labeled dual fuel. Some states you can't even install one in house or sell a house that has one installed if it doesn't meet emission requirements.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Illegal Stoves

PostBy: stovehospital On: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:01 am

It's the code people that did it. The BOCA and ASME building codes used in this country make then illegal. It really has nothing to do with an actual problem but is part of the codes that do not allow solid fuel appliances to installed in the same flue as a gas furnace. I have to deal with it all the time
stovehospital
 
Stove/Furnace Make: 250 stoves in barns
Stove/Furnace Model: #6 Herald baseheater

Re: Illegal Stoves

PostBy: PJT On: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:10 pm

If somebody had one of these installed for years were they grandfathered in or did all of them become illegal with the stroke of a pen?
PJT
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Magee Royal Oak; Glenwood Modern Oak 116
Other Heating: propane

Re: Illegal Stoves

PostBy: SMITTY On: Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:04 pm

That's usually how these things go. Leave it to government busybodies ... :roll: :mad:
SMITTY
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Patriot Coal - custom built by Jim Dorsey
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mark III (not currently in use)
Coal Size/Type: Rice / Blaschak anthracite
Other Heating: Oil fired Burnham boiler

Re: Illegal Stoves

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:11 pm

Photog200 wrote:I just retired from the electric and gas company ... I was the company photographer so what would I know about code. :whistle:
Randy

So if you just retired, you're probably ancient. When you started work, it was in the old old old days when camera flash units consisted of putting some flash powder in a big reflector and igniting it. The techs knew how dangerous gas could be, so whenever they thought there might be a leak they would say, "Let's have Randy go in and take a picture". Then they'd stand WAY back and after they saw the flash and no windows or doors exploded out, they'd go in and do their thing. Little did you know the photographer was the most important guy in the company.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: Illegal Stoves

PostBy: Richard S. On: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:00 pm

PJT wrote:If somebody had one of these installed for years were they grandfathered in or did all of them become illegal with the stroke of a pen?


As far as the stoves go themselves the EPA regulations only pertain to newly manufactured stoves. It doesn't concern older stoves. I don't recall when the first regs came out but something like a decade ago. They just set in place updated and more stricter ones. My understanding overall these regulations increase efficiency and reduce particulate emissions for very little cost but I really havent researched it that much. .

However some states and local laws ban their sale new or used and even their use is some cases. If you had 20 brand new stoves made in 1980 and lived in one of those states you couldn't sell them and the homeowner wouldn't be able to install it. The laws vary but you may not even be able to sell a house that has one in some states.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite

Re: Illegal Stoves

PostBy: PJT On: Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:16 pm

My GOD I love Big Govt :!: :!: :!:
PJT
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Magee Royal Oak; Glenwood Modern Oak 116
Other Heating: propane

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