Zone control and pumps

Re: Zone control and pumps

PostBy: whistlenut On: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:44 pm

Today I changed out 7 Grundfos circs that were mounted horizontally with the motors all downward. They are 12 years old in a completely radiant home. The easy part is changing the circs, however the not so fun part is unsweating 14 flanges that had to be turned 90 degrees. FYI, IF anyone looks at the install sheet, the circ orientation is pictured. It is a very common mistake, especially if a supply house tell you they are multi-positional mounting. The check valves frequently can be omitted with cirs that have IFC valves. ......isolation flanges and/or purge ports on the return lines.

You absolutely cannot add too may shut off valves, drain ports and in your air scoop , go get the $7.00 1/8" mini shut off for the vent. You will appreciate the lack of draining the pressure of the system to change it. Also the pressure tank under the scoop....get the proper 1/2" shutoff and drain/purge valve so you can safely and quickly drain a failed tank and replace it with getting burned, steamed, or having to shut down anything. The 'check valves are addressed. No harm, no foul, just observations, not criticism. If you have time to redo the circ position, perhaps you might want to add shut off flanges and for the returns, shut-off with the purge port. That way you can 'power vent' EACH loop separately, and no air bleeding will be required!

If someone tells you that won't work, grab a large, heavy object and commence beating so sense into him. 20 minutes should do it, but if they are stubborn, perhaps get a couple friends to stop by and help out. :idea: :idea: :!: :roll:
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Zone control and pumps

PostBy: ShawnTRD On: Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:58 pm

I think I'm over my head and should call my uncle.
ShawnTRD
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA6 (New in April 2014)
Other Heating: Weil Mclain WGO-2 (Net 75k BTU)

Re: Zone control and pumps

PostBy: whistlenut On: Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:01 pm

Relax, you will learn as you go forward. We've all been there, however ask Sting to include a sexy new avatar, to cheer us up!!!
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB


Re: Zone control and pumps

PostBy: Sting On: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:11 am

whistlenut wrote:Relax, you will learn as you go forward. We've all been there, however ask Sting to include a sexy new avatar, to cheer us up!!!


Like this?? :D
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: Zone control and pumps

PostBy: Sting On: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:39 am

ShawnTRD wrote:I think I'm over my head and should call my uncle.


Listen to Whistle nut - he is the sane one here - YOU have all summer to get around this and its nice and cool on a hot day in the boiler room. :P

Like they say at Home Cheepo --- " LETS DO THIS"

Pictures -- did someone ask for pictures
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Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: Zone control and pumps

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Apr 10, 2014 7:55 am

Lots of good advice so far...keep it coming.

There are different ways to tie the coal boiler in, but let me share what I did on my last one. I installed an EFM for a neighbor and ended up installing two tee's in the supply riser on his oil boiler. The coal boiler got connected to those tee's with an additional circulator, and the system runs very well. By connecting the two with a closely spaced set of tees, flow to and from the coal boiler won't impact the flow rates in your existing zones.

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Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Zone control and pumps

PostBy: KLook On: Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:50 am

That is what I did for my radiant floor system. How are you preventing the oil boiler from firing? Electronically or are you pushing the heated water through the oil boiler and reducing the high temp limit switch?

Kevin

That is a very simple way to hook something in. 8-)
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Zone control and pumps

PostBy: whistlenut On: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:28 am

Sting has the right idea on the Avatar.....the last one in the Picture posted. ........................Not the cool dude leaning on a wall smokin' a butt. Butt would be the operative word for him, me thinks.

Homie don't do dat!!!!!
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Zone control and pumps

PostBy: whistlenut On: Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:31 am

I think pictures are a very good way to explain what we're talking about. No two systems are piped identically, or set up the same, but they serve as a very good way to help in layout and execution.

Go online to check out isolation valves, circ options, 'typical layouts'.......print them out and go from there. :idea:
whistlenut
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AA130's,260's, AHS130&260's,EFM900,GJ&VanWert
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Franks Boiler,Itasca415,NYer130,Van Wert
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Yellow Flame
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska-4,Keystoker-2,
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Alaska,Gibraltor,Keystone,Vc Vigilant 2
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Van Wert, NYer's, Ford,Jensen.
Coal Size/Type: Rice,Buck,Pea,Nut&Stove
Other Heating: Oil HWBB

Re: Zone control and pumps

PostBy: Rob R. On: Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:37 am

KLook wrote:That is what I did for my radiant floor system. How are you preventing the oil boiler from firing? Electronically or are you pushing the heated water through the oil boiler and reducing the high temp limit switch?

Kevin

That is a very simple way to hook something in. 8-)


I simply shut the power off to the oil burner. If desired you can hook up an extra thermostat to bring it online.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Zone control and pumps

PostBy: KLook On: Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:24 pm

I simply shut the power off to the oil burner


Yeah, I like mine to act as an automatic backup, and it kicks in to helps the undersized VF3000 also. I don't have to touch anything, it just does its thing. But that increases complexity also.

Kevin
KLook
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Harman VF 3000
Coal Size/Type: rice, bagged, Blaschak
Stove/Furnace Make: Harman (Back In Maine)
Stove/Furnace Model: VF 3000

Re: Zone control and pumps

PostBy: ShawnTRD On: Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:28 pm

So this coming Monday my uncle should be here. He has been doing plumbing and heating for many many years. I'm going to go over what he think I should do with the hookup. I'm also thinking I want to do a cleanup of the hole piping system. Finish that wall behind the oil boiler, water heat, and pressure tank. I'm going to ask him what he would normally charge someone to do this, and maybe see if he would want the job for that much. How much do you guess he might say it would cost?


ShawnTRD wrote:Here is hopefully a more complete picture of what I'm working with.

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ShawnTRD
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA6 (New in April 2014)
Other Heating: Weil Mclain WGO-2 (Net 75k BTU)

Re: Zone control and pumps

PostBy: McGiever On: Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:21 pm

Not to beat a dead horse...but your zone III Flo-chek should not be laying over sideways.
It defeats the check flapper from closing as is it's purpose to close when flow stops.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: Zone control and pumps

PostBy: ShawnTRD On: Sat Aug 23, 2014 7:46 pm

McGiever wrote:Not to beat a dead horse...but your zone III Flo-chek should not be laying over sideways.
It defeats the check flapper from closing as is it's purpose to close when flow stops.


Reason way I wanta professional to redo it all.
ShawnTRD
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA6 (New in April 2014)
Other Heating: Weil Mclain WGO-2 (Net 75k BTU)

Re: Zone control and pumps

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Sat Aug 23, 2014 8:03 pm

McGiever wrote:Not to beat a dead horse...but your zone III Flo-chek should not be laying over sideways.
It defeats the check flapper from closing as is it's purpose to close when flow stops.

They also shouldn't be plugged, it should have a drip leg. A few inches of nipple and a cap to allow any mud to settle. The plug will hold the mud in the valve and it won't seat properly.
coaledsweat
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Axeman Anderson 260M
Coal Size/Type: Pea