I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

Re: I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

PostBy: Pacowy On: Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:28 pm

I don't know why the bases for the ratings are different. As Sting mentioned, ratings claims for some units, especially stoker stoves, have been based on input btu numbers. Those sound big, but aren't comparable to output ratings.

I think the main thing subject to "interpretation" in the output ratings is the allowance for distribution system losses/"pickup" factor normally used to translate gross output to net output figures. Keystoker seems to use 1.18 these days. In the olden days I think 1.3-1.4 was pretty common. Also, the btu/hr factor for hot water radiation varies a little with the assumed boiler water temp and (help me out here hydronics guys) the gpm? And there are a few cases where gross output claims are based on feed rates that users may have trouble sustaining in practice (I'm not aware of that issue with Keystokers). Aside from those types of things I don't think there's much variation.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

PostBy: Sting On: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:10 pm

Apparently Boots , you are filling you boiler room with good choices. But that Whats best question is a tall order. Mostly answered by = Whats best for you!

Lots of time - keep swinging :D
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:21 pm

What size is the hopper and ash tub on the KA-4?
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy


Re: I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

PostBy: Boots On: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:52 pm

Rob R. wrote:What size is the hopper and ash tub on the KA-4?


Rob,

If you are asking me, I do not know.. I've got the KA-6 and do not know what size hopper it has, but the ash tubs they gave me are 1 bushel, which a quick Google conversion says is 9.3 gallons.

Sting wrote:Apparently Boots , you are filling you boiler room with good choices. But that Whats best question is a tall order. Mostly answered by = Whats best for you!

Lots of time - keep swinging :D


yes, I understand that I will be the one who has to find the answer to that question. Your best and my best maybe (and likely are) two very different things.
Last edited by Boots on Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Boots
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Burnham SFB 101 (sold)

Re: I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

PostBy: Boots On: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:55 pm

I was reading this article http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/430/Low-water-cutoffs/203/Low-water-cutoffs-belong-on-ALL-boilers And have 2 questions about it, It mentions what hard water can do to a boiler, What about softened water? I have a water softener, If I fill my boiler with water that has been softened is that OK, or is it a good thing?

second question, in the article it states
To make things worse, the temperature the aquastat was seeing was not accurate because the aquastat’s probe was in a well, and no one put heat transfer grease into that well, so the burner kept running.


Is the author talking about something like Thermal mastic? http://www.supplyhouse.com/Parker-Hannifin-475321-PM8-Thermal-Mastic-7-oz
Boots
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Burnham SFB 101 (sold)

Re: I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:55 pm

New aquastats will come w/ a pouch of thermal compound.
It is more like the paste used between a computer cpu and the heat-sink.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

PostBy: Rob R. On: Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:44 am

Boots wrote:Rob,

If you are asking me, I do not know.. I've got the KA-6 and do not know what size hopper it has, but the ash tubs they gave me are 1 bushel, which a quick Google conversion says is 9.3 gallons.


I am confused. I thought you were shopping for a boiler and had it narrowed down to the K4 and K6.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

PostBy: Sting On: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:00 am

Yes - use the soft water
Sting
 
Other Heating: OBSO Lennox Pulse "Air Scorcher" burning NG

Re: I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

PostBy: blrman07 On: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:08 am

McGiever wrote:New aquastats will come w/ a pouch of thermal compound.
It is more like the paste used between a computer cpu and the heat-sink.


When I installed a 60 evacuated tube solar heating panel I dutifully applied thermal grease on the SS nipples that plugged into the SS headers. It looked and had the consistency of diaper rash grease. The heat tubes consisted of a metal thermal tube inside a glass tube. The glass tube fit inside a rubber boot and the nipple plugged into the header. You were supposed to put thermal grease on the metal tube to increase the heat transfer capabilities. WELLLLL let me tell you what happened.

Three years later we sold the house and the new owners didn't want the supplemental solar system. I was going to take it down and install it at our new to us house. No problem. I went up on the roof to take it down which required me to first pull the tubes. Low and behold what did I find? That wonderful thermal grease had solidified in the header to tube connection and there was no way those tubes were coming out without breaking them. With 60 tubes at $40 a pop there was no way I was going to break them. I left them on the roof and ate the $2400 loss.

A better idea is to use a LOT of antiseize. It will do exactly the same thing and you don't have to worry about it solidifying.

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland pa.
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, using a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly stove in the church
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

PostBy: Boots On: Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:52 pm

Rob R. wrote:
Boots wrote:Rob,

If you are asking me, I do not know.. I've got the KA-6 and do not know what size hopper it has, but the ash tubs they gave me are 1 bushel, which a quick Google conversion says is 9.3 gallons.


I am confused. I thought you were shopping for a boiler and had it narrowed down to the K4 and K6.



Sorry I was unclear. I already have the KA-6.The reason I mentioned the K4 is because I knew that someone would ask why I had not chosen it over the K6 based on my current heat load. I was just explaining that my future heat load the K4 will not comfortably handle. The main Topic of the thread was to seek information / research material for the coming install of the KA-6. And maybe some confirmation that I have made the correct choice 8-)

Sting wrote:Yes - use the soft water


Ok, Thank you.
Boots
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Burnham SFB 101 (sold)

Re: I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:10 pm

You made the right choice,now if the temp should drop to -35* as it did in January 1994, you will have no worry,the beast in the basement will keep you warm :!: :)
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

PostBy: Lu47Dan On: Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:55 pm

While the boiler is being piped, install a thermometer in the supply header and one in the return header piping.
The thermometers will tell you more of how the boiler is operating, I chased a problem with a friends system for three seasons before I cut in tees, installed wells and thermometers. The problem was low temperature water coming out of the boiler. The tri-dictor on the boiler was reading low, so the cut-off was set low. Once I raised it up to 180°, the boiler cycled less and ran less this winter.
Good luck.
Dan
Lu47Dan
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Sears circulator air tight stove.
Other Heating: Crown 115,000 BTU oil fired boiler(house) Weil Mclain 150,000BTU oil fired boiler(Shop)

Re: I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

PostBy: Boots On: Tue Apr 15, 2014 5:49 pm

Lu47Dan wrote:While the boiler is being piped, install a thermometer in the supply header and one in the return header piping.
The thermometers will tell you more of how the boiler is operating, I chased a problem with a friends system for three seasons before I cut in tees, installed wells and thermometers. The problem was low temperature water coming out of the boiler. The tri-dictor on the boiler was reading low, so the cut-off was set low. Once I raised it up to 180°, the boiler cycled less and ran less this winter.
Good luck.
Dan


I had planned on installing thermometers, If I use a primary/secondary system I will put them in the supply and return side of the Primary loop and in the Supply and return sides of each zone. May be over kill, but it would satisfy the inevitable curiosity I would have of what temps were supplied and returned from each zone.


Still waiting on my books to get here to help me decide exactly what type of system I want to install. My wife has mentioned more that one time in the last couple of weeks that I have spent entirely too much time on the computer... My only reply is "do you want to be warm?". ;)
Boots
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Burnham SFB 101 (sold)

Re: I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

PostBy: Lu47Dan On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:32 am

I have installed systems (large commercial) that every heating/cooling unit had thermometers on all four lines. Hot water and Chilled water, but since the temperature probe ports have became popular we install them. But for a home owner a set of thermometers on the lines makes more sense.
I replaced the thermometers on a friends wood fired boiler with digital one that read out to a central panel, now this summer he wants to install new tee's and thermometers at the boiler so he does not have to run upstairs to get the readings.
Dan.
Lu47Dan
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Sears circulator air tight stove.
Other Heating: Crown 115,000 BTU oil fired boiler(house) Weil Mclain 150,000BTU oil fired boiler(Shop)

Re: I need help.. Keystoker KA-6 install.

PostBy: Boots On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:40 pm

Sting wrote:
system balance
Try this

http://www.bellgossett.com/literature/files/1195.pdf

My longest thread on system balance is
Monoflow Continuous Circulation System
you will have to sort thru it a bit but some basic concepts are covered

Keep asking questions
Kind Regards
Sting


Sting, are you still following this thread?

If so.... I have spent a lot of time reading the material you have suggested this past week. I have gotten around to reading about system balance. I think I grasp the concept pretty well. Without modification to my system I don't think there is much to improve. I've attached a diagram of my current heating loop (not to scale) arrows show flow direction. The main loop runs directly through each baseboard (no tees, straight in and out of the other side). so metering flow at each baseboard or each room is not an option (without modification) but I do have the ability to balance one side of the house VS. the other. It so happens that the "cold side" of the house is the Kitchen side, that side has only the kitchen, a small bath, and the master bedroom. The kitchen is connected to the currently unheated laundry room and office. There is no door just a door way (I think that's why the kitchen is the the coldest heated room) The thermostat is on the other side of the house. I think I should be able to throttle the gate valve on the "warm side" to slow the flow down and that should even up the temperatures. The draw back is that the small bath that is on the same side as the kitchen my end up slightly warmer than I want it.

Image
Boots
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Burnham SFB 101 (sold)