Interesting view point.

Interesting view point.

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:13 pm

Interesting view point.
http://news.yahoo.com/learned-liberal-t ... itics.html

It's true that divisiveness has gotten worse. It's become a useful political tool, used by all political parties and by extremists on all sides. But, except for some of those extremists, liberal, or conservative, we have more in common than not.

Two of my oldest friends are life-time, city-raised Dems. We share a lot in common. Just not so much when we go into a voting booth.

In debates, I try to remember the saying. 'I never learned anything from someone who agreed with me." Easier said than done. :roll:

What say yee ?

Paul
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Re: Interesting view point.

PostBy: franco b On: Tue Apr 15, 2014 2:53 pm

What a load of rot that article is.
Sure people want the same things but the progressive road leads to Detroit.
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Re: Interesting view point.

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Apr 15, 2014 3:06 pm

As I have often said, it's so much easier to point fingers than take some personal responsibility. If we bury our heads & refuse to negotiate & find common ground then quite obviously we will get no where.
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Re: Interesting view point.

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:17 pm

samhill wrote:As I have often said, it's so much easier to point fingers than take some personal responsibility. If we bury our heads & refuse to negotiate & find common ground then quite obviously we will get no where.


Is anything ever "right" or "wrong" in your world? Is everything shades of gray or are some things definitively black or white? Does 2+2 sometimes equal 5 or no matter what my opinion is, does it always equal 4?

"Negotiate" and "compromise" are buzzwords for people who are trying to slip a knife in your ribs.
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Re: Interesting view point.

PostBy: KLook On: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:28 pm

Ah, Jpete, we have been through all this many times. Don't feed the Troll.

Kevin
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Re: Interesting view point.

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:30 pm

LOL :funny: :rofl: :up:

I'm sorry man. I keep forgetting. I thought we were trying to have an adult conversation or some sort of reasoned debate.
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Re: Interesting view point.

PostBy: samhill On: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:36 pm

That may be true in your world Jpete but not in mine, it always comes out to 4 unless it gets proven otherwise. Also in my world everyone is entitled to their own opinion I even believe it's something the two of you always push at your convenience but want to silence anyone that differs, it is however one of those Rights. ;) Don't know what set you off Jpete but you could try saying & Klook if the shoe fits.
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Re: Interesting view point.

PostBy: KLook On: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:42 pm

Nothing else to add Sam, no one calls me a troll. Everyone calls you a troll.

Kevin
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Re: Interesting view point.

PostBy: jpete On: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:44 pm

What set me off is the idea that a person is "wrong" if they won't "compromise". That seems to be the current thinking in politics today.

But if a person is "right", and demonstrably "right", then why should they yield their position?
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Re: Interesting view point.

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:01 am

jpete wrote:What set me off is the idea that a person is "wrong" if they won't "compromise". That seems to be the current thinking in politics today.

But if a person is "right", and demonstrably "right", then why should they yield their position?



Not to take sides, but are we mixing up political parties and people ? Politics and an individual's political opinions are two different things. The individual has much more leeway in sticking with their views, verses an elected official, no ?

Politics has long been referred to as, "The art of compromise" (at least it used to be. :roll: ). Individual positions, or opinions, don't have to compromise and within reason I don't think they should.

As an example of political, verse individual views, I just finished reading a brief study of the history of what the founding fathers went through, and how long it took them to come up with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as we know them today. It took a tremendous amount of time, debate and compromise - and much of it not so polite, calm, and reasonable as many think.

I doubt the average American knows how close we came to not having any Constitution at all, or at least not in it's present form.

It really is an amazing document of compromise when you know all the different, extremely strong, and often opposing views and special interests that went into making it. Yet, for all it's compromises, the individuals still got to keep their opinions.

Paul
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Re: Interesting view point.

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:31 am

The Constitution, even in it's present form, is still flawed.

Imagine if the Founding Fathers hadn't "compromised" with the Southern states and instead outright banned slavery from the beginning.

No Civil War. No Civil Rights movement. None of that stuff. How many lives would have been saved just by sticking to what some knew was RIGHT from the beginning?
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Re: Interesting view point.

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:59 am

jpete wrote:The Constitution, even in it's present form, is still flawed.

Imagine if the Founding Fathers hadn't "compromised" with the Southern states and instead outright banned slavery from the beginning.

No Civil War. No Civil Rights movement. None of that stuff. How many lives would have been saved just by sticking to what some knew was RIGHT from the beginning?


The Founding Fathers didn't have a choice to "outright ban slavery" because many of those Founding Fathers were from the slave states. The northern Founding Fathers HAD to compromise their beliefs on slavery, or the southern Founding Fathers wouldn't have gone along. And the southern Founding Fathers had to compromise some of their beliefs to get what they wanted too.

Don't forget, they were long used to thinking and acting as separate colonies - only concerned with their own interests. This uniting of colonies was a new, untried thing. An experiment in governance that no one knew how it would turn out. There were even some Founding Fathers that didn't believe it would last long.

And a few times during the work of writing the Constitution and Bill of Rights, we came darned close to just being 13 countries instead of one. That they did compromise some things shows that, in the long run, they realized there was more to be gained by working together and compromising, then by not.

And yes, they had their share of radicals, extremists, and very biased news papers back then too. We've got nothing new on that.

Paul
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Re: Interesting view point.

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:05 am

jpete wrote:The Constitution, even in it's present form, is still flawed.

..................


I'm sure there are many views on that. I wouldn't be surprised to see that if you asked 10 people what they think is flawed, . . you might get 12 opinions ! :D

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
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Re: Interesting view point.

PostBy: carlherrnstein On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:10 am

jpete wrote:
samhill wrote:As I have often said, it's so much easier to point fingers than take some personal responsibility. If we bury our heads & refuse to negotiate & find common ground then quite obviously we will get no where.


Is anything ever "right" or "wrong" in your world? Is everything shades of gray or are some things definitively black or white? Does 2+2 sometimes equal 5 or no matter what my opinion is, does it always equal 4?

"Negotiate" and "compromise" are buzzwords for people who are trying to slip a knife in your ribs.


Jpete I often disagree with samhill's point of view however, I feel that I must point out that his point is valid. Also many times there is no "right" solution to a problem, just varying degrees of good and bad.
Last edited by carlherrnstein on Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Interesting view point.

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:12 am

If the F.F. themselves thought that it would be to the letter perfect for all time then they wouldn't have included process of change & some even wanted it revised every (odd # of years) 771/2 I'm thinking it was. :idea:
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