Barn Heating

Barn Heating

PostBy: Wallyp On: Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:23 pm

Can anyone advise about heating poultry barns with forced air anthracite burning furnaces . I am from Ontario Canada and have been a member of this forum since 2011
Thanks
Paul
Wallyp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Heatmor
Stove/Furnace Model: 400dcss

Re: Barn Heating

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:03 am

Paul
Can we assume that you already have some system in place?
Can you describe that so folks don't have to use as much clairvoyance to provide the help that this thread wants to give you.
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: Barn Heating

PostBy: Wallyp On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:34 am

In Ontario a lot of chicken barns in particular are heated with radiant tube heaters fired by propane . The exhaust gases from these heaters are exhausted back into the same barn with the resulting C02 and large amount of exhaust moisture . Then these gases and moisture plus other odours are expelled from the barn by forced ventilation ( many large fans ) . Heating costs for these barns are high but especially last year when propane prices sky rocketed and some farmers did not have enough propane locked in at lower prices . I have been told there are farmers specifically in New York state who use anthracite fired furnaces ( 450,000 btu's per hr ) to blow warm dry air into these barns. I have searched the internet but can't figure out who to contact- Universities, furnace manufactuers, actual farmers, etc . It seems to me that not only could the heating costs be reduced by using anthracite as the fuel source, but other advantages would entail because of that dryer air being injected into those barns . Any help will be appreciated
Wallyp
 
Stove/Furnace Make: Heatmor
Stove/Furnace Model: 400dcss

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

Re: Barn Heating

PostBy: blrman07 On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:14 am

I gotta say we see a lot of stuff on this forum but this is a first for me. I never actually thought about it but will see what I can find.

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland Pennsylvania
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, reblacking a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: Barn Heating

PostBy: Pacowy On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:15 am

Keystoker makes a 450k btu/hr furnace that would do what Paul describes. I think they are $7k+ for a new one.

The same result could be achieved with a boiler and modine-type heat exchangers.

Mike
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Re: Barn Heating

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:20 am

I had a pal on another board that heated his chicken barns with a huge PELCO brand corn fueled hot water boiler. He moved the heat energy from the boiler to the barns via large insulated lines to fan coils suspended above the stock and exhausted the hi moisture air as you describe.

I would venture that a single point coal fired boiler like that would be far less drama to tend than smaller boilers on each building - but some may disagree and your installation may not lend itself to that.

Since you already have a handle on the gross load you have to heat - now its just a process to find the boiler [or series of boilers fired in a single boiler room] and underfeed stoker big enough [ sized correctly to cover that load [and the loss of moving all the energy to the buildings] - then factor in all the installation costs [ labor - pipe - controls - radiation in the load ] and decide if you can achieve a reasonable payback on your investment.

I am sure there are many resources in your industry describing how these barns are heated with hydronic systems= just substitute in a coal boiler for the oil/gas/wood boilers others are already using. - then you don't have to reinvent the wheel.

Scorched air systems [like you have] are probably the least expensive to install and likely the most expensive to run - what you appear to want will be the opposite - be sure you can get the payback you need before investing and seriously impinging your cash flow!
Last edited by Sting on Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: Barn Heating

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:21 am

Am I understanding that you want to vent the exhaust INTO the barn??? I'm not sure that's a good idea. :shock:
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Barn Heating

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:24 am

Carbon12 wrote:Am I understanding that you want to vent the exhaust INTO the barn??? I'm not sure that's a good idea. :shock:


happens a lot in the ag industry - especially used to be common in glass greenhouses where the boiler was gas fired

the CO was good for the plants - not so much for folks sleeping in attached houses :oops:
Last edited by Sting on Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: Barn Heating

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:26 am

@ Sting: I didn't know that. I would just be concerned that, with coal, you would be venting more CO into the barn,.....fly ash too.
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: Barn Heating

PostBy: Sting On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:27 am

Sorry -- see edit above
Sting
 
Other Heating: BurnHAM=NG-gas

Re: Barn Heating

PostBy: blrman07 On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:31 am

After a bit of research I found that Chinese manufacturers make very large coal fired air heaters that are supposed to be designed for poultry houses. The only other thing I found was hot water coal fired boilers with the hot water piped to coils. Most of what I found was natural gas or propane fired heating tubes. Have you tried installing a coal fired boiler to supply hot water to a coil as supplemental heat to see how the birds like it?

Rev. Larry
blrman07
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Bucket a Day
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vigilant Casting 2310
Baseburners & Antiques: rebuilding a 1906 March Brownback Double Heater, reblacking a UMCO 1920's Pot Belly
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Wood in the VC and anything that will fit in the Bucket a Day. It's not fussy.

Re: Barn Heating

PostBy: Rob R. On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:34 am

I have been to a few greenhouses heated with big Keystoker furnaces...can't see why you couldn't do the same thing to a chicken barn.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: Barn Heating

PostBy: Lightning On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:43 am

I like Rob's idea. Seems the least intrusive and most economical. Of course you wouldn't want to vent any coal exhaust into the barn, it would be curtains for the chickens..

:stretcher:

But if moisture is a necessity, you would need a way to humidify the heated air.
Lightning
 
Hand Fed Coal Furnace: Clayton 1537G
Coal Size/Type: Nut/Stove Size Mix

Re: Barn Heating

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:52 am

Heaters were/are exhausted into the building to reap the exhaust heat,not to add moisture. Moisture in a chicken house is already at high levels,none needs to be added. On a coal burner properly set-up not much heat is lost up the stack so no need to poison the indoor air. Wallyp ,if you install a coal boiler & pex the hot water to modine style heaters you can : heat safely,economically,eliminate the excess moisture issue & actually help to keep the building healthier for the chickens. Is the 450k btu for each house ?? You do not need to go to chineese junk to get a big heater, EFM & Van Wert make BIG boilers & there are some other brands too with HUGE output,( look in the pics of your boiler threads). If you are heating multiple buildings within reasonable distance of each other ,you might consider a HUGE unit to supply multiple buildings.Either way,furnace or boiler you will be able to improve the air quality & cut the energy bill by drier air resulting in less run time for exhaust fans & no propain !!
windyhill4.2
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1960 EFM520 installed in truck box
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Coal Size/Type: 404-nut, 520 rice ,anthracite for both

Re: Barn Heating

PostBy: Pacowy On: Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:15 am

AFAIK the biggest boiler EFM sold was the 1300, and that was rated at 416k btu/hr gross output. And EFM no longer produces anything larger than a 520, so you'd be looking at used equipment (with the possible exception of new components that Mark's produces).

EFM did sell bigger stokers than that (I heat my house with one), good for up to 930+k btu/hr of boiler input. I agree with Sting and windyhill that one of those matched to an appropriate boiler could heat multiple buildings.

Mike
Last edited by Pacowy on Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pacowy
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: H.B. Smith 350 Mills boiler/EFM 85R stoker
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/anthracite

Visit Lehigh Anthracite

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