Just who are the sheep

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Re: Just who are the sheep

PostBy: samhill On: Thu May 08, 2014 4:34 pm

Lets put it another way, that welfare program isn't supposed to go to illegals by law, if they are getting it someone is breaking the law. The ones that send money back are illegal workers doing jobs that most Americans won't do & doing those jobs for low paying American businesses.
Welfare taken away from the bottom would leave many going hungry & turning to that crime you think everyone on welfare are doing. Take away Corp. Welfare & Corporations would pay more & maybe a CEO or two may have to cut back to just a million or two per year. Even if they didn't pay a cent in tax there would still be millions not being paid in subsidies & if Corp.s are people why shouldn't they have to pay tax on earnings like other people?
samhill
 
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Re: Just who are the sheep

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Thu May 08, 2014 7:52 pm

samhill wrote:Lets put it another way, that welfare program isn't supposed to go to illegals by law, if they are getting it someone is breaking the law. The ones that send money back are illegal workers doing jobs that most Americans won't do & doing those jobs for low paying American businesses.
Welfare taken away from the bottom would leave many going hungry & turning to that crime you think everyone on welfare are doing. Take away Corp. Welfare & Corporations would pay more & maybe a CEO or two may have to cut back to just a million or two per year. Even if they didn't pay a cent in tax there would still be millions not being paid in subsidies & if Corp.s are people why shouldn't they have to pay tax on earnings like other people?


Wouldn't it be better if welfare was done at a local / personal level. You say that taking welfare away from the bottom would cause people to go hungry. I disagree. Neighbors, family, friends and strangers would be more willing to step up and help. I would not let my neighbors or family starve as with most or all here. But I do have resentment towards people that feel entitled. I feel resentment that they force me to pay into a corrupt system that I have very little or no say in how it is distributed. The fact that such a small % of the money actually gets where it is intended. Welfare is the reason for a lot of the division and pay inequality in this country.
I also do not know where you get your figure from saying that corporations don't pay taxes on earnings. Most corps pay around 35% there may be a few conglomerates that get away without it but a majority of corporations are small little local business's like mine. I assure you there is not many loopholes for us. We pay taxes for every bit of equity and income even if it is not liquid.
Flyer5
 
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Re: Just who are the sheep

PostBy: samhill On: Thu May 08, 2014 9:07 pm

Flyer just like when I was in business, I paid every cent I owed & I was way small, could have operated under the table but choose to do things right & not worry about anything coming back at me. Then again I couldn't afford a lobbyist :lol:, you could have a whole lot of small businesses that do pay & it wouldn't add up to what one GE doesn't.
You would be surprised how many people just look at less fortunate like they didn't exist or were somehow happy to be hungry & homeless, by the way there a many veterans in that position now, serve & get injured & discharged, no job, friends & family that either can't or won't help, it's a big thing at any VA Clinic or Hospital & many are too proud to ask for help.
samhill
 
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Re: Just who are the sheep

PostBy: samhill On: Thu May 08, 2014 9:10 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/0 ... 73548.html
Hows that for a starter, how many families at the bottom would it take to make up for that?
http://thinkbynumbers.org/government-sp ... tatistics/
I know you don't pay attention to stuff you choose not to believe so simply just prove it wrong. Once again how are they people too if they can get away with this BS & every other person can't, if you pay everything you owe you should be proud of paying for them as well, personally I get POed.
samhill
 
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Re: Just who are the sheep

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Thu May 08, 2014 10:04 pm

samhill wrote:http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/03/major-corporations-tax-subsidies_n_1073548.html
Hows that for a starter, how many families at the bottom would it take to make up for that?
http://thinkbynumbers.org/government-sp ... tatistics/
I know you don't pay attention to stuff you choose not to believe so simply just prove it wrong. Once again how are they people too if they can get away with this BS & every other person can't, if you pay everything you owe you should be proud of paying for them as well, personally I get POed.



I have no problem ending corporate welfare along with reforming public welfare. I just do not consider corporations to be the problem here. It is the politicians that are at fault. They invent or support programs to get elected or re-elected not what we send them to do. They are supposed to represent the best interests of the people. The way it is now the represent the best interests of themselves. This is not a one sided deal here either. But take Luzerne CO most of the corrupt politicians have been Dem but it is also a heavy Dem county so it is to be expected. Corporations are only doing what is allowed by law. Is there anywhere that GE has broken the law on taxes. If they did I would expect them to be fined and held accountable. I boils down to government reform on a grand scale. The unfortunate part to that is the only way for that to be possible is less than desirable.
Flyer5
 
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Re: Just who are the sheep

PostBy: samhill On: Fri May 09, 2014 8:01 am

Finally a bit of agreement but those Corp.s bought those politicians fair & square because the laws were changed to allow it & that was because of lobby's. All the more reason for term limits & IMHO there should be no profit driven lobby's, this day & age they only serve to corrupt & divide.
samhill
 
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Re: Just who are the sheep

PostBy: franco b On: Fri May 09, 2014 10:36 am

As usual the left looking at things ass backwards. Only a crazy person can see equivalence in welfare to the poor and tax breaks to the oil companies. The oil company produces many many times the wealth to the government in excess received in tax breaks. Where do you think the money for welfare to the poor comes from? The oil company is taxed on its profits and then taxed again on what it pays its employees and dividends to stock holders, and yet again on retail sales of its product. There is enormous gain to government versus no gain at all and only expense in welfare to the poor.

Any company is allowed depreciation on its assets of machinery so why can't an oil company have the same thing? Keep hacking off pieces of the Goose that lays golden eggs and eventually there will be no Goose and no way to pay welfare.
franco b
 
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Re: Just who are the sheep

PostBy: samhill On: Fri May 09, 2014 11:05 am

Just maybe this has a bit more to do with the cost of doing business.
http://www.statisticbrain.com/ceo-statistics/
http://moneymorning.com/2013/04/19/ceo- ... -workers/#
This one shows a comparison between U.S. & some other countries where businesses do quite well in some instances.
http://www.verisi.com/resources/us-ceo-compensation.htm
samhill
 
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Re: Just who are the sheep

PostBy: samhill On: Fri May 09, 2014 11:29 am

Here's a bit of bipartisan information of all the tax breaks & # of employees, naturally they could be lying & the big oil telling the truth, that guy that runs out & fills your tank, checks your oil & washes your windshield could be making six figures, never mind they don't do that too many places anymore.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl ... 21262.html
samhill
 
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Re: Just who are the sheep

PostBy: franco b On: Fri May 09, 2014 12:09 pm

I can agree that executive pay is often far higher than it should be, and rubber stamp boards of directors are at fault. Putting people like Hillary on the board as political payoff is just more corruption.

The bottom line though is where the money will do most good, whether in private hands, or in the hands of government. More money to our present government only fosters more leeches and the current move to fascism. Do you have any doubt that the widening disparity between rich and poor is the result of government policy and the rigging of markets for the benefit of insiders in government and big business?
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
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Re: Just who are the sheep

PostBy: samhill On: Fri May 09, 2014 2:29 pm

No doubt franco, so do we continue to do the same & somehow think it's going to change? We could as Americans demand term limits & the right to vote on specific items which greatly affect us since we have no representation, we could demand that there are limits on money spent both by government & those that want to own government. Do you think that some unfortunate soul on welfare can buy a politician or lobby to change taxes & laws in their favor? It isn't the little business owner, middle class, no class or even upper mid/lower high income earner that buys favors from politicians. If one think they all have in common both parties are expensive as they don't sell themselves cheap.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
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Re: Just who are the sheep

PostBy: franco b On: Fri May 09, 2014 5:23 pm

samhill wrote:No doubt franco, so do we continue to do the same & somehow think it's going to change? We could as Americans demand term limits & the right to vote on specific items which greatly affect us since we have no representation, we could demand that there are limits on money spent both by government & those that want to own government. Do you think that some unfortunate soul on welfare can buy a politician or lobby to change taxes & laws in their favor? It isn't the little business owner, middle class, no class or even upper mid/lower high income earner that buys favors from politicians. If one think they all have in common both parties are expensive as they don't sell themselves cheap.


Pretty much can agree Sam, except the poor do buy politicians with their vote. That's why it so often pays better to not work. lobbyists are also necessary since the ignoramuses who make the laws have no idea of the harm they can do; so someone has to explain the needs of business. When it comes to outright bribes like a general who gets a cushy job on retirement with a company he was awarding contracts to is another matter. Lets keep in mind that the people on both sides are looking out for number one primarily. Both government and the ones they do business with. They are both the same species with the same failings.
franco b
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: V ermont Castings 2310, Franco Belge 262
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Re: Just who are the sheep

PostBy: samhill On: Fri May 09, 2014 5:42 pm

Franco, I don't know if you were ever out of work for any period of time or what they used to call under employed but I was when the Steel Mills went down. Overall the economy wasn't great in the early 80s to 90s & in the areas that were referred to as the rust belt there was nothing. There were thousands of skilled people in just about every craft but no jobs, there were also some employers that took full advantage of that, they only used Temp. Services to hire which paid crap so I've been there, never hit welfare but probably would have been better off several times. All I'm saying is if you haven't been there then you don't really know, you would rather see school lunch programs & day care cut than have a millionaire take a little pay cut. You worry about the needs of businesses but don't give a hoot about the fellow man, that's a shame & before you go on about abuses there are some everywhere & they could be weeded out if politicians had any. We are conversing on the only thing that is needed for lobbying, look up the definition of lobbying, it should be illegal. People can survive without business but without people there would be no business.
samhill
 
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Re: Just who are the sheep

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Fri May 09, 2014 7:09 pm

samhill wrote:Finally a bit of agreement but those Corp.s bought those politicians fair & square because the laws were changed to allow it & that was because of lobby's. All the more reason for term limits & IMHO there should be no profit driven lobby's, this day & age they only serve to corrupt & divide.



Still 100% the politicians fault for allowing or agreeing to it. The corps are just doing what they need to do to survive. Didn't Obama run the first term saying he will allow no lobbyist's in the white house.Again not just Obama but just using him as an example of what is happening on both sides. They say one thing and do another.
Flyer5
 
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Re: Just who are the sheep

PostBy: samhill On: Fri May 09, 2014 7:15 pm

Flyer, I believe that was Edwards during the debates. He was a scumbag but had a few good ideas.
samhill
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: keystoker 160
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Stove/Furnace Make: keystoker/hitzer
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