air source heat pump?

air source heat pump?

PostBy: evilstevie On: Sat May 10, 2014 1:06 am

We had a (free) energy audit last week, and the guy mentioned the possibility of an air source heat pump to supplement our propane and coal. These units apparently do not work so well below around 35F, but here in upstate NY there are plenty of days from Oct - Dec, and March - May, where temps are well above that but we still need heat, but typically do not run the coal stove. We currently do have central air and forced hot air ducting, so this potential heat pump would pretty much drop into place, and could be integrated pretty well with our existing propane furnace via a new thermostat.

Anybody have any experience with these units in NY or PA climates? I've read that they're a lot more common further down south....but not sure if the ROI really pans out here in upstate NY.

Thanks!
evilstevie
 

Re: air source heat pump?

PostBy: davidmcbeth3 On: Sat May 10, 2014 1:30 am

I have one .. it works ... but I never use it with my stove running ...
davidmcbeth3
 
Coal Size/Type: nut/pea/anthra
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 503

Re: air source heat pump?

PostBy: Richard S. On: Sat May 10, 2014 2:26 am

You can use the calculator here to get a starting point, change the efficiency for electric to 280% (or whatever the unit is advertised as).

http://nepacrossroads.com/fuel-comparis ... ulator.php

Keep in mind that 280% is under ideal conditions, e.g 55 to 60 degrees outside. As the temperature decreases the efficiency decreases. That's why they are popular in the South, they are in those temperature ranges that are most efficient.
Richard S.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Van Wert VA1200
Coal Size/Type: Buckwheat/Anthracite


Re: air source heat pump?

PostBy: Ed.A On: Sun May 11, 2014 8:23 am

Mine is part of my mini-split AC system. Works great for spring and fall when it's too early/late to hit the coal pile.
Ed.A
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Channing III/ '94 Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: air source heat pump?

PostBy: jpete On: Sun May 11, 2014 9:08 am

The "ductless split" heat pumps are more popular around here. On a 40* day, I routinely see ~125* discharge air coming from these units. They will heat large rooms or small houses pretty quickly at temperature.
jpete
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Harman Mk II
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Nut, Pea
Other Heating: Dino juice

Re: air source heat pump?

PostBy: McGiever On: Sun May 11, 2014 9:23 am

Not all heat pumps are created equal...some are really quite good. :)

Ductless Mini Splits operate in the exact design configuration the mfg'r designed them to operate in.
Other type systems added on/into existing duct systems are hit or miss depending on ductwork design/layout...which is rarely optimum.

Heat Pumps are only as good as their installation/system can allow them to be...can't always condemn the unit itself. :roll:
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek

Re: air source heat pump?

PostBy: Carbon12 On: Sun May 11, 2014 10:46 am

The $$$ you'd spend on the heat pump would buy a hell of a lot of coal,.....even a bunch of propain! Do you have central A/C already? If you do and it needs to be replaced, then and only then I'd go with the heat pump. If you don't have A/C and want it, go for the heat pump also.
Carbon12
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: Keystoker KA-6
Coal Size/Type: Rice/Anthracite
Other Heating: Heat Pump/Forced Hot Air Oil Furnace

Re: air source heat pump?

PostBy: revtim On: Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:54 am

Why not look into a geothermal heat pump setup? From the research I've done, they are much more efficient and provide significant savings on the cooling side as well. Plus, I'm not sure if this is the case everywhere but in Michigan, our electric utility will set up a separate electric meter for your geothermal heat pump and sell you electricity at half the going rate to power it and your hot water heater too.. assuming it's electric as well. Combined, that makes it a real bargain.... with the exception of the crazy high installation price.
That's the direction I'm headed once I get my coal stoves installed. In the end, I'll have a 3 ton geothermal heat pump plus two coal stoker stoves. The backup for the heat pump will be a forced air LP system that I intend to never run.. except for the fan to move the air. It may seem like overkill but I'm certain that without the coal stoves, the heat pump alone wouldn't keep my home toasty warm on really cold days without the LP kicking in and after this last winter in this old farm house as the Polar Vortex descended and my old LP furnace began dying... like Scarlet O'Hara I proclaimed... "I'm going to live through this and when it's all over, I'll never be chilly again. No, nor any of my folk. If I have to lie, steal, cheat or kill. As God is my witness, I'll never be chilly again."
PS: There are some pretty awesome tax credits and generous financing programs around for geothermal heat pumps too... which is another advantage.
revtim
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: reading
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: keystoker
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: FALP

Re: air source heat pump?

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:58 pm

LOTS of $$$$$$$$$$$$ at good interest rate + tax credits = STILL many $$$$$$$$$. LOTS of electric consumption at 1/2 price = STILL high operating costs. A brand new coal boiler,installed by a professional is still cheaper to install & operate than the geo-expensive unit. The coal boiler can easily make hot water too !
windyhill4.2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Other Heating: Oaktree OWB 600K

Re: air source heat pump?

PostBy: revtim On: Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:11 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:LOTS of $$$$$$$$$$$$ at good interest rate + tax credits = STILL many $$$$$$$$$. LOTS of electric consumption at 1/2 price = STILL high operating costs. A brand new coal boiler,installed by a professional is still cheaper to install & operate than the geo-expensive unit. The coal boiler can easily make hot water too !


True... but the geo-expensive unit can also cool the house in summer, something coal can't do, for a fraction of any other method of cooling except for soaking my t-shirt in cold water then standing in front of a fan... I can live without A/C as this ain't Phoenix but since I don't want to, I don't have to and the savings of geo over air heat pump for cooling alone will pay for itself over time.
revtim
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: reading
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: keystoker
Coal Size/Type: rice
Other Heating: FALP

Re: air source heat pump?

PostBy: windyhill4.2 On: Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:21 pm

OVER time >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
windyhill4.2
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Crane 404 with variable blower
Other Heating: Oaktree OWB 600K

Re: air source heat pump?

PostBy: McGiever On: Fri Aug 22, 2014 5:27 pm

There are previous threads with lively discussion on the Geo-thermal heat pumps or sometimes they're called ground source heat pumps.
No need to re-hash it all here again. :roll:
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
Stove/Furnace Make: Hydro Heat /Mega Tek