Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

Re: Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:11 am

rberq wrote:
Hambden Bob wrote:those were Americans that a supposed American Betrayed in the Enemy Camp.

Sure – IF you believe the official government line of the time, and the stories invented and embellished over the years. The clever trick of our government and military -- the Big Lie -- was to portray Fonda as attacking our soldiers rather than attacking the war itself. It amazes me that folks here who don’t believe much of anything they hear from The Establishment, are willing to swallow this tripe. Try an unbiased source:

http://www.snopes.com/military/fonda.asp

Jane saw, before the rest of us, the horrendous stupidity and immorality of our country’s behavior, and she pointed it out. For that, of course she is vilified. Always shoot the messenger.



She wasn't hated for the "message", so much as the method the "messenger" used to say it.

Many were saying the same here in the USA. That's protesting the war which was their legal right.

She went well beyond that right by traveling - illegally I might add - to NV to let the NV use her message to prolong the fight, thus killing more of our guys. I was in the service then too and to me, that's not protesting the war, she KNOWINGLY gave aid to the enemy, which is an act of treason.

Paul
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Re: Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jun 11, 2014 9:14 am

I think that the words urban legend probably fit, it was more than likely vet's & just perhaps some with feelings of guilt themselves that exaggerated Fonda's action but it doesn't change facts that she did what she did. A very large part of the differences in how our returning vets are treated today is because of the way V.N. Vets have fought to make changes. If you didn't serve then you can never fully know.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ehbc1zU1BwQ
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Re: Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

PostBy: plumb-r On: Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:50 am

There are ways to voice your opinion or displeasure , without going to the enemy. She sat on a gun turret used to shoot at Americans and sang songs to them. TRAITOR !!! :rambo2:
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Re: Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

PostBy: rberq On: Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:01 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:Many were saying the same here in the USA. That's protesting the war which was their legal right ... she KNOWINGLY gave aid to the enemy, which is an act of treason.

That war was so wrong in so many ways that America's political leaders were the real traitors, and if it weren't that might-makes-right they should have been tried in international court as war criminals. The North Vietnamese were "enemies" only because our country declared them to be.
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Re: Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:36 pm

As far as I know it was the same as most recent wars, the North invaded the South were we had a long relationship & many business interests. The French were there for many years before us & it had become costly & unfavorable for them (sound familiar) we didn't have to go in there but there were many millionaires made from that war the same as the recent ones, sad but the bottom line. Many gave their lives & health both mental & physical so a few could save & make money, hindsight is always 20/20 & perhaps the powers to be see the day coming when others won't line up to go & fight their wars so the advent of remote control war machines & video games will take over but in the end the little guy will pay in every way.
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Re: Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:03 pm

rberq wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:Many were saying the same here in the USA. That's protesting the war which was their legal right ... she KNOWINGLY gave aid to the enemy, which is an act of treason.

That war was so wrong in so many ways that America's political leaders were the real traitors, and if it weren't that might-makes-right they should have been tried in international court as war criminals. The North Vietnamese were "enemies" only because our country declared them to be.



Am I to take it that you excusing what she did ?

Paul
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Re: Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

PostBy: rberq On: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:04 pm

samhill wrote:As far as I know it was the same as most recent wars, the North invaded the South were we had a long relationship & many business interests. The French were there for many years before us & it had become costly & unfavorable for them (sound familiar) we didn't have to go in there but there were many millionaires made from that war the same as the recent ones, sad but the bottom line. Many gave their lives & health both mental & physical so a few could save & make money, hindsight is always 20/20 & perhaps the powers to be see the day coming when others won't line up to go & fight their wars so the advent of remote control war machines & video games will take over but in the end the little guy will pay in every way.

You said a mouthful there, Sam. All so true. Vietnam was the end of an age of innocence for America, where we had come victorious out of WWII, the war that HAD to be fought. Yes, in the 1950s we had President Eisenhower warning about the military-industrial complex, but people didn't really understand him because we were still locked into the old ways of unquestioning patriotism. Then came Vietnam and people still didn't understand that there were millionaires made from the war. Then a lull with minor skirmishes, and finally the second Iraq war, morally and financially the equivalent of Vietnam in its needless slaughter and its cost both to Iraq and the US. And finally US citizens began to understand that wars are sometimes "pushed" by those who become rich off them.

There, my children, you have the history of wars and their causes and their profiteers in my lifetime. The lesson has lasted through the presidency of Barack Obama, where we have not attacked Iraq, Libya, Syria and several other hot spots favored by almost-president John McCain. How much longer will it last before we squander American lives and wealth on another profitable venture?
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Re: Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:27 pm

rberq wrote:There, my children, you have the history of wars and their causes and their profiteers in my lifetime. The lesson has lasted through the presidency of Barack Obama, where we have not attacked Iraq, Libya, Syria and several other hot spots favored by almost-president John McCain. How much longer will it last before we squander American lives and wealth on another profitable venture?

Wow, learn something new every day. Wars are caused by evil profit. I always thought it was nut case liberal presidents who entered both world wars, Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, Croatia, Libya, and now we are arming jihadists.
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Re: Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:50 pm

franco b wrote:
rberq wrote:There, my children, you have the history of wars and their causes and their profiteers in my lifetime. The lesson has lasted through the presidency of Barack Obama, where we have not attacked Iraq, Libya, Syria and several other hot spots favored by almost-president John McCain. How much longer will it last before we squander American lives and wealth on another profitable venture?

Wow, learn something new every day. Wars are caused by evil profit. I always thought it was nut case liberal presidents who entered both world wars, Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, Croatia, Libya, and now we are arming jihadists.


Naaawwww, . . . that's just a coincidence all those Dem Presidents happened to be in office when the military/industrial complex declared all those wars. :roll:

Paul
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Re: Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:36 pm

franco b wrote:
rberq wrote:There, my children, you have the history of wars and their causes and their profiteers in my lifetime. The lesson has lasted through the presidency of Barack Obama, where we have not attacked Iraq, Libya, Syria and several other hot spots favored by almost-president John McCain. How much longer will it last before we squander American lives and wealth on another profitable venture?

Wow, learn something new every day. Wars are caused by evil profit. I always thought it was nut case liberal presidents who entered both world wars, Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, Croatia, Libya, and now we are arming jihadists.



And if clinton wasn't so busy dippin' his cegars and doing his job we may not have had 911.
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Re: Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

PostBy: plumb-r On: Wed Jun 11, 2014 5:46 pm

Obama has had his hand in Iraq,Libya and Syria. No American troops have been there but he has given arms to those that would use those arms against us. He has done almost everything he could to bring about the down fall of the republic. The left is so naive. Some day you will wake up and realize you gave away your freedom willingly. :shock:
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Re: Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Wed Jun 11, 2014 6:42 pm

plumb-r wrote:Obama has had his hand in Iraq,Libya and Syria. No American troops have been there but he has given arms to those that would use those arms against us. He has done almost everything he could to bring about the down fall of the republic. The left is so naive. Some day you will wake up and realize you gave away your freedom willingly. :shock:



The problem I have is they are giving mine and your freedoms away as well. :mad:
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Re: Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:35 pm

Hate to burst any bubbles but we were deeply involved in V.N. while Ike was in office & had a presence there at least on occasion when Teddy hunted tigers, he had a big compound in Ban Me Thout. As I said it's the powers to be that put us in many wars but you just go on believing there is a choice no matter which party is in power. Back in the $40s, 50s & 60s it was the rubber companies & Westinghouse that got us there among others.
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Re: Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:53 pm

First US casualty in VN was in '58 or '59 IIRC.
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Re: Does it seem a bit odd that everything bad guy Nixon ...

PostBy: samhill On: Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:54 pm

This day & age I wonder just who all own major shares in the U.S. businesses that produce arms & how much of what they sell makes it into the U.S. Treasury or even the U.S. for that matter. Don't forget it's our tax dollars that develop these weapons & just what do you think would be the very best way to show off the firepower?
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=ho ... +worldwide
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