Anyone else sickened by what is going on in Iraq?

Re: Anyone else sickened by what is going on in Iraq?

PostBy: jpete On: Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:26 pm

Perhaps.

And perhaps in 30 or 40 years, the third world will have onerous taxes, the EPA and high fuel costs. Until then, we'll probably see more jobs evaporate.
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Re: Anyone else sickened by what is going on in Iraq?

PostBy: franco b On: Wed Jun 18, 2014 10:35 pm

samhill wrote:No Jpete, it never has crossed my mind, the way I see it is that there are many businesses that have stayed here & are doing well. Naturally perhaps they aren't as top heavy as others prefer to be, perhaps they don't promise their shareholders X amount, perhaps instead of deferring funds elsewhere they choose to invest in their own future that is a deduction, just perhaps the CEO makes a reasonable wage. Like some here both union & non-union (if your treated fairly there is no need to unionize) just perhaps they realize that their employees are their greatest asset & show their appreciation.
Just perhaps some of the ones that suddenly found patriotism have discovered that even people in third world countries are people & those people are wanting more of a share, from the floor on up to the top. There too perhaps the bribes they pay the stay there are becoming increasingly more costly, just perhaps.

Sam, I think there is some truth in everything you have said in the above, but it is only part of the truth. In a global market things are going to be produced where costs are least. You infer that this leads to excess profit which mostly is not true. Do you think we would have any domestic car companies if they could not outsource parts? Where are Zenith, Philco, and RCA televisions? If they were still being produced here they probably would be triple the price of what you pay now. You have also not made allowance for the benefit of lower prices to Americans of foreign made goods. It's not all bad.

My own view is I would like to see more things made here and at higher prices. There is too much wastage with things thrown away with useful life left, just to get the latest model. When things were more costly as they used to be there was also room for many more to fix things rather than scrap them as is done today.
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Re: Anyone else sickened by what is going on in Iraq?

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:21 am

One, there is no such thing as "excess" profit. There is only "profit".

Second, we have always lived in a "global market". From the Silk Road to the Spice Road to the Triangle Trade.

And third, while I agree that we are too quick to throw things away. Most of the stuff we have, especially electronics with surface mount components can't really be fixed. It's not like you can replace a vacuum tube or it's socket anymore. To fix it would mean replacing the most expensive parts so what's the point. Just get a new one.
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Re: Anyone else sickened by what is going on in Iraq?

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:25 am

jpete wrote:One, there is no such thing as "excess" profit. There is only "profit".

Second, we have always lived in a "global market". From the Silk Road to the Spice Road to the Triangle Trade.

And third, while I agree that we are too quick to throw things away. Most of the stuff we have, especially electronics with surface mount components can't really be fixed. It's not like you can replace a vacuum tube or it's socket anymore. To fix it would mean replacing the most expensive parts so what's the point. Just get a new one.


I meant excess profit in the sense that Sam sees it.

The global markets you named were all specialty items limited to certain geographic areas; not subject to competitive pressure from many countries as we think of global markets today.

Sadly, I think you are right about the repair of so many things made today. So many things are dirt cheap new. I just spent $15 for a new cell phone to replace my old one after 4 years.
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Re: Anyone else sickened by what is going on in Iraq?

PostBy: jpete On: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:29 pm

franco b wrote:The global markets you named were all specialty items limited to certain geographic areas; not subject to competitive pressure from many countries as we think of global markets today.


Spices went from China and India to Mother England. I anyone's book, that's "global trade"

The Triangle Trade was slaves to sugar plantations from molasses and rum. Hardly limited to certain geographic areas.

I'm not trying to be a hard azz. I know you know all this. But it's a pet peeve of mine when people talk about the "global economy" like it's something new.

America is "here" because some guy was trying to reduce shipping costs to Europe.
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Re: Anyone else sickened by what is going on in Iraq?

PostBy: KLook On: Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:46 pm

America is "here" because some guy was trying to reduce shipping costs to Europe.


Yeah, and now we have tenured professors teaching the new Ivy League idiots that we are to blame and all the worlds problems stem from white people and the almighty search for a dollar.

Kevin
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Re: Anyone else sickened by what is going on in Iraq?

PostBy: franco b On: Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:27 pm

jpete wrote:America is "here" because some guy was trying to reduce shipping costs to Europe.

I like it. You do have a talent for seeing through to the essence of things. As a troubleshooter of mechanical things that talent must serve you well, but in philosophy you will need more diplomacy to convince others.

The slave trade had only one geographic source as well.
Last edited by franco b on Thu Jun 19, 2014 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone else sickened by what is going on in Iraq?

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:36 am

franco b wrote:
jpete wrote:America is "here" because some guy was trying to reduce shipping costs to Europe.

I like it. You do have a talent for seeing through to the essence of things. As a troubleshooter of mechanical things that talent must serve you well, but in philosophy you will need more diplomacy to convince others.

The slave trade had only one geographic source as well.


Not historically.

The slave trade was well established long before the new world was ever discovered. It expanded out into the Americas. South America had more slaves sent there than North America. Meanwhile there were many being made into slaves that were not sent out from their home country, but kept there for use by the slavers or whoever won the war. At some time, or other, slavery was part of many cultures all across the world, records show going back to the Romans and even the Greeks. Going back as far as the earliest trade routes.

And, even toward the end of slavery, not all slaves were African. Many came from Europe, but the history books only mention indentured servants.

Try Goggle-ing "Irish slaves" for just some of that.

Paul
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Re: Anyone else sickened by what is going on in Iraq?

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:55 pm

I found someone else who is sick of the Iraq War.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/1 ... 05424.html
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Re: Anyone else sickened by what is going on in Iraq?

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:47 pm

Hey even a stopped clock is right twice a day and not because Beck says so. Let them get on with it as at this point we have absolutely no choice. Bad election decisions have severe consequences and we are where we are. What could have been a containment operation has now become a choice of WW111 and nobody wants to go there. So let's stand back and watch it unfold. Grab the peanuts and enjoy. Dream of a parallel universe where Obummer was never President. However, as it is totally the wrong decision to get involved I have every confidence the bombing will start Monday morning.

It's a beautiful weekend, I'll think I will drive up to MA and try and find the 9 planeloads of illegals that Mr Stupid dumped up there. They deserve it, who knows they may even learn a lesson.... and you actually read Huffington Post.... why am I not surprised.
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Re: Anyone else sickened by what is going on in Iraq?

PostBy: jpete On: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:39 pm

franco b wrote:
jpete wrote:America is "here" because some guy was trying to reduce shipping costs to Europe.

I like it. You do have a talent for seeing through to the essence of things. As a troubleshooter of mechanical things that talent must serve you well, but in philosophy you will need more diplomacy to convince others.

The slave trade had only one geographic source as well.


As SB said, there were many sources of "slaves". Although, if they were white, they typically were "indentured servants" and could generally work their way to freedom.

But locally, there are more Narragansett Indians in the Caribbean than there are here. We tried making them slaves here, but they had a bad habit of vanishing into the wilderness. It's almost like they had been living here for thousands of years. :)

But, we wised up to that and had the Africans dropped here and then reloaded the boat with Indians and sent them to the sugar cane plantations. Where do you think Brown University got such a large endowment?
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Re: Anyone else sickened by what is going on in Iraq?

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:54 am

No troops, then aid and some troops for security, then more aid and troops as advisors, plus maybe a bombing campaign. It's looking more and more like the 1950's and early 60's all over again.

Sadly, the old saying still holds true, "Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

Paul
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