Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

Re: Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:03 am

samhill wrote:No SB you are the one that tied McKay with a (what you call evil corp.)not me. Just your use of you Using you & others know your right & I have the nerve to say I think you are wrong says it all.


I could care less about McKay, but you dug up info about McKay to try and prove me wrong, when all along I was talking only about corporations and how libs like to complain about them. The writer of the article used McKay's name, so you want to blame the messenger. You, and you alone twisted the MacKay connection and your still trying to justify it.

Here's the entire paragraph, because it still seems you haven't read it.

"Eventually, the alliance became, essentially, a convener and funder of the party establishment. It welcomed several big unions to the table and took up side collections for candidates. And now it's formalized that role by electing Stocks as its chairman, replacing Rob McKay, heir to the Taco Bell fortune."

My comment was directed, as a sarcastic question, at the last three words - in light of how much libs like to complain about the rich and the evil corporations, etc.

And quoting something doesn't automatically make those words, or opinions, the words/opinions of the one doing the quoting.

Had you argued about Taco Bell being mentioned in the same quote you might have had a chance, because then, we'd have been talking more closely about the same thing.

Have a nice day.

Paul
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Re: Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:50 am

SB, why did you now post a different statement than you originally did? I did blame the messenger & that was you.
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Re: Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:58 am

It's not a "different statement" just more from the same paragraph, including what I first posted.

As I said,I posted it because you didn't get it and I see you still don't get it. Now, I see no amount of trying to explain it to you is working.

Good day.

Paul
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Re: Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

PostBy: samhill On: Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:11 am

OK, adding to a statement makes it the same as it was. :doh: :rofl:
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Re: Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:18 pm

Who can deny that the so called Robber Barons lifted the standard of living of multiple 10's of millions of people?

And by comparison they dwarf the wealth of todays most elite rich class.
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Re: Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

PostBy: wsherrick On: Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:46 pm

lsayre wrote:Who can deny that the so called Robber Barons lifted the standard of living of multiple 10's of millions of people?

And by comparison they dwarf the wealth of todays most elite rich class.


It was a great country when an immigrant child such as Andrew Carnegie could get a job as an ash sweeper and end up the richest man in the World. To do that he had to make something, improve something that the World needed. He had to take risks, take chances, but; people like him and others elevated the lives of everyone else.
One of my favorite sayings from Cornelius Vanderbilt was, "The Public be Damned!" Of course, this is always taken out of context and it's meaning twisted. This remark was made because someone demanded that he run his Railroad as the Public i.e. Government saw fit.
Like any man with stones, he told them where they could shove it. He went on to build one of the most reliable railroad systems in the world. The New York Central was a standard that other railroads and businesses worked to attain.
Because of men like these we aren't living in mud huts sleeping with cows and goats.
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Re: Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

PostBy: Flyer5 On: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:06 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:It's not a "different statement" just more from the same paragraph, including what I first posted.

As I said,I posted it because you didn't get it and I see you still don't get it. Now, I see no amount of trying to explain it to you is working.

Good day.

Paul



Funny I was able to follow completely. I guess there really is different wiring.
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Re: Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:18 pm

Because of men like these we aren't living in mud huts sleeping with cows and goats.


Be patient, I give Obummer about a year and we will return to those times.
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Re: Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

PostBy: lsayre On: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:18 pm

Paraphrasing Issac Newton:

"If I have lived this modern life of plenty and relative comfort, it is by standing on the shoulders of those derogatorily referred to as Robber Barons."

Actual Issac Newton quote:

"If I have seen further, it is by standing on the shoulders of giants."

And foretelling the lefts response, it might go like this:

"If we have lived this modern life of lower to at best middle class suffering in the torments of poverty and ill health,it is clearly because we did not dance upon the graves of the Robber Barons while they were yet alive and sufficiently rob them of their derogatory glory before they absconded with the wealth we have given them through our collective sweat and toil and achievement in but mock servitude to them."

Short version: "You didn't build that!"
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Re: Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

PostBy: rberq On: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:42 pm

Are the superrich really evil ?
Since you didn’t answer your own question, SB, I will. In many countries of the world, you and I would be considered superrich. So I’m inclined to say No, we are not evil. At least I’m not. At least not always.

From there you pointed out that some superrich liberals are greedy hypocrites. The implication – totally ludicrous – is that there are no superrich conservatives who are greedy hypocrites. Or perhaps you only meant that superrich conservatives ADMIT that they are greedy hypocrites, so their hypocrisy is more highly refined and honest than that of superrich liberals. Or, just what the heck WAS your point, other than that you love to say the word “libs”?

lsayre wrote:Who can deny that the so called Robber Barons lifted the standard of living of multiple 10's of millions of people?

A more nuanced question. Thank you, Larry. Consider that, in their time, our country had a vast wealth of untapped resources relative to its population. These resources had to be organized, or exploited, depending on your choice of terms. The Robber Barons reaped huge personal rewards, AND there was plenty left over to benefit the little people. Does that situation still exist? Is there still substantial trickle-down from the Captains of Industry to benefit others, or is it now a zero-sum game where the powerful take all the benefits? How do we account for the wealth of the one percent while the middle class slides into poverty? What have the Robber Barons done for you lately? Examples, please
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Re: Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:15 am

rberq wrote:A more nuanced question. Thank you, Larry. Consider that, in their time, our country had a vast wealth of untapped resources relative to its population. These resources had to be organized, or exploited, depending on your choice of terms. The Robber Barons reaped huge personal rewards, AND there was plenty left over to benefit the little people. Does that situation still exist? Is there still substantial trickle-down from the Captains of Industry to benefit others, or is it now a zero-sum game where the powerful take all the benefits? How do we account for the wealth of the one percent while the middle class slides into poverty? What have the Robber Barons done for you lately? Examples, please


I'll grant that the game has changed and as a consequence the middle class is evaporating as we all (who are not part of the 1%) become relatively more and more impoverished, but I suggest that it is government intervention (aspects of it including income taxation, fiat money, environment, equal opportunity, affirmative action, education, welfare programs, health, international entanglements and wars, the United Nations, a new world order, hope and change, etc..., I.E., all aspects of government that the founders either never dreamed of, or did dream of and worked hard to keep us from) that has been and continues to be the primary game changer.

The coming game changer of mega proportions will be diminishing energy resources. But even there the government is clearly not helping matters. It is blocking virtually all energy avenues of the highest potential and squandering our tax dollars upon energy avenues of the lowest potential.

"That Government which governs least, governs best."
Last edited by lsayre on Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:26 am

rberg,

You said, "Are the superrich really evil ?
Since you didn’t answer your own question, SB, I will."

Maybe you skipped over the second line where I said, " I find it interesting in many respects about what it admits about the superrich libs to make it's point of the story."

Others got it, so I safely assume I made my point.

You said, "In many countries of the world, you and I would be considered superrich. So I’m inclined to say No, we are not evil. At least I’m not. At least not always."

My post has nothing to do with other countries, so I don't see how that is relevant to the post.

You said, " From there you pointed out that some superrich liberals are greedy hypocrites. The implication – totally ludicrous – is that there are no superrich conservatives who are greedy hypocrites. Or perhaps you only meant that superrich conservatives ADMIT that they are greedy hypocrites, so their hypocrisy is more highly refined and honest than that of superrich liberals. Or, just what the heck WAS your point, other than that you love to say the word “libs”? "

Your implication not mine. And, that implication only holds if you haven't heard any of the rhetoric in the news, lib websites, and Dem campaign speeches, about how the rich are not paying their fair share. Often implying that it's the Conservative rich that are guilty.

And yes, I use the term "libs". Just as the term "con" has turned up in posts by others in this section. I use the term "libs" because it is a long excepted term, just like the use of Dems, Repubs, and cons.

So, here's a question for you. When have the libs and/or Dems, in complaining about the rich, ever pointed fingers at their own (other than the story I just posted here)? Please post the links, stories, quotes, or whatever, from the lib media, because I'd love to finally get to see them.

Maybe you missed the recent news stories about how most of the wealthiest parts of the country are now predominantly Dem controlled ? Just Google, "Wealth and Dem control" you'll find lots of articles about it.

So, to make my point clearer for you. I find libs/Dems complaining about the Superrich, ... well,... rather rich !

Paul
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Re: Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

PostBy: wsherrick On: Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:09 pm

Here you go Leftists. The World without your hated Free Enterprise, Greedy Industrialists, the Enlightenment where the ideas of individual sovereignty, individual property rights and the idea that the fruit of your creative mind belongs to you.
The happy state of Man without those things.
Witch Doctors attempting to cure a headache with Stone Age ignorance. Here is your reality enjoy it.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=172727246267832
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Re: Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

PostBy: rberq On: Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:34 pm

lsayre wrote:I'll grant that the game has changed and as a consequence the middle class is evaporating as we all (who are not part of the 1%) become relatively more and more impoverished, but I suggest that it is government intervention … that has been and continues to be the primary game changer … "That Government which governs least, governs best."

The primary game changer for the middle class has always been the relative scarcity of labor. When there are five applicants for every job, the job won’t pay much. When there are five jobs for every applicant, the job will pay much more. There are skirmishes along the way as one side or the other seeks government intervention on its own behalf, but in the long run market forces will prevail.

The difference now is that the jobs have gone away entirely, through automation and/or off-shoring of factories. Automation has been increasing for years, so what can we say about that except that it disrupted the labor market again, as usual? Off-shoring, however, was abetted not by government intervention, but by the END of government intervention – the removal of protectionist trade policies. We the people trooped dreamily to Walmart to buy those wonderful $49 DVD players from China, and when we awoke from the dream we found our jobs were gone. The market, freed from government intervention, did what the free market is supposed to do, which in this case was to screw the American middle class. There’s an example of “governing least”. It may in the long run also be “governing best”, but it sure hurts right now, and (another quote) “In the long run we’re all dead.”
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Re: Class warfare. Are the superrich really evil ?

PostBy: lsayre On: Sat Jun 21, 2014 10:50 pm

Rberg, that we have abandoned the Constitutional call for isolationist tariffs and excises in favor of wide open globalism and open borders plays right into the astute observation you have made above regarding cheap foreign goods leading to the destruction of local jobs. It's not just Republicans and Democrats who have led us away from our Constitutional calling to be isolationists and brought us to this juncture. Even the Libertarians are completely blind to this point.

In furtherance of my opinion that all of our problems (the ones you have pointed out as well as the ones I have pointed out and many more on top of those) are ultimately somehow tied to energy matters, I offer this brief 56 minute video which could well be the best and most important 56 minutes you can spend in seeing where we are headed. The guy who created this video was formerly the Vice President of the mega conglomerate Phizer Corporation, until he had a moment of enlightenment that led to dramatic changes in his life and that of his family (for the better). The changes he made to his life are a result of the things he presents in the brief video "course" to be found on the web page I have linked here. This is the super condensed version of what was originally a much larger course that used to take about 3 and a half hours to watch (and which several times i have urged those on this forum to watch, with no feedback afirming that anyone ever actually did so).

http://www.peakprosperity.com/blog/8587 ... ke-last-20
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