4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Fri Jul 04, 2014 11:25 am

Few days ago the wife was giving or daughter a bath and discovered there is no cold water in the tub.

I just spent the morning tearing the shower valve apart. Thankfully a few years ago I bought all the parts to make such an emergency repair.

I replaced both cold water and hot water valves at the faucet for the tub. The hot side was leaking when off; seat was crushed. It took me 3 hours to get the Moen balancing spool out because the cap was seized in the valve body; I used half a can of penetrating oil on it. When I finally got it out I discovered the spool itself had rotted away to nothing. I had to pry it out of the housing.

The only thing I can't get out is the cartridge. I have the Moen tool but all it did was sheared the tabs off the old cartridge. So, for now, since it seems to still work I left it be. I might have to pull the center shaft completely out the use a bolt and socket to get it out. But I figured if I tried that today with no hardware stores open if be screwing myself royally. Murphy and I are not friends.

I'm happy though because I have cold water now.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: 4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:29 pm

Penetrating oil probably won't help loosen it. The crud that the cartridge in is water hardness salts and metal corrosion. Well, at least Kroil treatments didn't help me on my Moen shower/tub faucet.

In this instance, the plastic Moen tool didn't help at all. It did work for our kitchen faucet but not on the shower/tub. I rigged up a bolt and socket tool but that didn't work either because the socket and washer assembly that bucked up against the faucet didn't allow enough depth to pull the long cartridge all the way out. I ended up going down to the local Mom & Pop hardware store and got a generic puller that had hardened bolts and a long fiber 'socket'. I still had to modify that some to get it to work but it did work. Once it started to move, the Kroil likely gave it a little lube to slid on out.

Once you do get the cartridge out, clean housing good. I found a lot of corrosion in the dead end of the housing that prevented the new cartridge from seating. Once the crud was cleared, I lubed the cartridge ports with a little silicone grease and finished the job successfully. The job took a while but that was because I needed the cartridge puller this time where I didn't the first time I did the same job on the kitchen faucet. If you get something in this time and age that does its job for 15 years, you can declare it served its life well.

Now things aren't made like my 60 year old coffee pot :!:
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: 4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:57 pm

I have the metal Moen extractor tool. The one with the "T" handle. I tried to use it today and ended up shearing the two little brass tabs off the old cartridge with it. I'm going to go out and get a 12 x 1.75" tap and a bolt to match. I'll pull the stem out then thread the outer housing and then thread the bolt in and hopefully I'll get it out. Otherwise I'll have to replace the whole thing.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator


Re: 4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

PostBy: VigIIPeaBurner On: Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:36 pm

I'm not near the tool but I never exerted any thrust on the brass tabs - I can't recall brass tabs. I pulled on the threaded bolt/shaft of the cartridge. I had to rock the cartridge from time to time to help break the crud's hold on it. The tool I had threaded onto the bolt/shaft. The puller's bolt protruded thru the top of the 'socket'. The foot of the socket sat on the faucet housing and I turned the head of the puller bolt with a wrench. The head of the puller bolt turned on the head of the 'socket' backed up by a thrust washer. The 'socket' was long enough to pull the cartridge up into the 'socket' far enough to free it from the crud built up around the hot and colt inlet ports of the housing.
VigIIPeaBurner
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Furnace: Keystoker Koker
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Vermont Casting Vigilant II 2310
Other Heating: #2 Oil Furnace

Re: 4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:16 pm

VigIIPeaBurner wrote:I'm not near the tool but I never exerted any thrust on the brass tabs - I can't recall brass tabs. I pulled on the threaded bolt/shaft of the cartridge. I had to rock the cartridge from time to time to help break the crud's hold on it. The tool I had threaded onto the bolt/shaft. The puller's bolt protruded thru the top of the 'socket'. The foot of the socket sat on the faucet housing and I turned the head of the puller bolt with a wrench. The head of the puller bolt turned on the head of the 'socket' backed up by a thrust washer. The 'socket' was long enough to pull the cartridge up into the 'socket' far enough to free it from the crud built up around the hot and colt inlet ports of the housing.

Yeah, when I tried to pull the cartridge out it just pulled the stem out; well, it started to. I stopped pulling. I then thought I'd try some twisting action and ended up just shearing the little tabs off the cartridge.

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That's the tool I have. It's the one Moen makes. The little nubs on the end fit into slots on the cartridge. When I twisted it a bit the little tabs that are on the cartridge broke off. I did try to turn the large nut on the tool but all it did was began pulling the stem out. Tomorrow I'm going to buy a tap and bolt and then I'll try taking it out that way; after I pull the stem out.

Edit:

I messed up. Upon closer inspection and wiping some of the corrosion away I've discovered that the Moen Cartridge that is currently installed in my shower faucet is plastic. Which explains why I sheared one of the tabs off. :oops:

The new cartridge I bought a few years ago is all brass. Soooo.....looks like I'm going to leave that cartridge in there so as to not screw it up anymore. It's currently working fine as is. I just figured since I was in there replacing things that I'd do everything. But I don't actually have to change the cartridge.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: 4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

PostBy: Ed.A On: Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:42 pm

I feel your pain bro. I was fortunate enough not to break the tabs...but man was it close. I think it's best I just replace the whole danm unit rather than bother next time, it is close to 20yrs old, served me well.
Ed.A
 
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: Alaska Channing III/ '94 Stoker II
Coal Size/Type: Rice

Re: 4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Fri Jul 04, 2014 8:48 pm

The plumbing in this house blows. I expect that new balancing spool to only last about 3-4 months before the water pressure drops and we lose either the hot or cold water.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: 4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

PostBy: davidmcbeth3 On: Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:27 am

I'm On Fire wrote:The plumbing in this house blows. I expect that new balancing spool to only last about 3-4 months before the water pressure drops and we lose either the hot or cold water.

Blame the wife for approving the purchase of the house !
davidmcbeth3
 
Coal Size/Type: nut/pea/anthra
Stove/Furnace Make: Hitzer
Stove/Furnace Model: 503

Re: 4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:45 pm

davidmcbeth3 wrote:
I'm On Fire wrote:The plumbing in this house blows. I expect that new balancing spool to only last about 3-4 months before the water pressure drops and we lose either the hot or cold water.

Blame the wife for approving the purchase of the house !


She already knows she should've never bought this house. She bought it a year before her and I were even a thing.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: 4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

PostBy: Rob R. On: Sun Jul 06, 2014 6:38 am

Poor water quality is a separate issue than which house you bought. Fix the problem, treat the water as needed.
Rob R.
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: EFM DF520
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Hitzer 50-93
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Rice
Other Heating: Dad's 1953 EFM Highboy

Re: 4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Sun Jul 06, 2014 2:27 pm

Rob R. wrote:Poor water quality is a separate issue than which house you bought. Fix the problem, treat the water as needed.

Yeah, I'm aware of it.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: 4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:43 pm

But you got that lake there...
That all makes up for it... ;)
Just like I am 600 ft to The Sound...
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: 4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:45 pm

CapeCoaler wrote:But you got that lake there...
That all makes up for it... ;)
Just like I am 600 ft to The Sound...


Yeah, except it doesn't. We're surrounded by idiots and inconsiderate jackwagons. Also, the lake isn't really all that nice.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator

Re: 4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

PostBy: CapeCoaler On: Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:34 pm

Yes... ;)
I Know... ;)
I was being sarcastic...
The best time is winter when 'they' are gone...
The water sucks and i don't swim in it...
But other people paid $900,000 for a house 400 feet away from me... :shock:
CapeCoaler
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: want AA130
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine BS#4, Harman MKII, Hitzer 503,...
Coal Size/Type: Pea/Nut/Stove

Re: 4th of July plumbing nightmare.....

PostBy: I'm On Fire On: Fri Jul 11, 2014 9:06 pm

CapeCoaler wrote:Yes... ;)
I Know... ;)
I was being sarcastic...
The best time is winter when 'they' are gone...
The water sucks and i don't swim in it...
But other people paid $900,000 for a house 400 feet away from me... :shock:


LOL

Actually I would go swimming in the lake. It's nice when there is no one around. But you are right that the only time we get any peace and quiet is in the winter. Besides, the winter is the best time for COAL.

The water nightmare never ends either. Right after I fixed the cold water in the tub the cold water on the bathroom sink ceased to work. I can't figure out why though, there is no mixing valve or anything on it. There's only shut off valves. What I ended up doing was swapping the supply line with the output one; so I put the cold water supply on the end that feeds to the spout and then put the spout line on the supply side of the valve and now there is cold water. I'm completely perplexed why it works backwards but won't work the way it's supposed to.

Here's a picture.

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Anyone know why it would automagically just decided it won't work one way but does the other? There's no cartridge in it that I'm aware of.
I'm On Fire
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machines DS-1600 Hot Air Circulator