Glenwood #8 long burn

Re: Glenwood #8 long burn

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:24 pm

".............. Like I say, I'd shave them down a hair. ....................."

Agreed. I just measured the opening in the top of mine and it's 7-1/2 inch, so the outside of the magazine would need to be less.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Glenwood #8 long burn

PostBy: scalabro On: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:32 pm

I think a piece of 6 or 7 inch cast iron drain pipe could be used for that pretty easily.

The shoulder on the female end is probably big enough to grind down to the required size and the length is the easy part.

Would be cheap enough to try.....
scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite.
Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.

Re: Glenwood #8 long burn

PostBy: dlj On: Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:14 pm

scalabro wrote:I think a piece of 6 or 7 inch cast iron drain pipe could be used for that pretty easily.

The shoulder on the female end is probably big enough to grind down to the required size and the length is the easy part.

Would be cheap enough to try.....


6 inch drain pipe is too small. 7 inch would be perfect, but they don't make it.... Although I guess you could try 6 inch extra heavy - you'd probably have enough going to the outer flange for the top but you'd loose a fair amount of internal space running down the 19 1/2"....

dj
dlj
 
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Re: Glenwood #8 long burn

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:57 am

Like minds ! :D

In my search for a magazine, I discussed this with Wilson. He mentioned hearing of a guy using cast iron drain pipe.

So far, there is no 7 inch size, but a "Hub 6 inch pipe" is close to being usable with some machining and/or modifying in some way.

Here's a page showing the dimensions of standard iron drain pipe. http://www.petersenproducts.com/Specifi ... _Iron.aspx.

Notice the 5th table down titled "Extra Heavy".

The 6 inch size pipe, at the hub end is 7.19 ID, with a wall thickness of 0.25. That's slightly larger OD than will fit. It could be turned down to just under 7-1/2 inch leaving quite a bit of material to machine a lip at the very top to fit the stove top recess.

Yes, there would be some loss of capacity with a 6 inch ID pipe, but it's better than no pipe.

Even if I could find some 6 inch extra heavy hub pipe, sadly, it's too big to fit on my 7 inch lathe. :(

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Glenwood #8 long burn

PostBy: scalabro On: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:02 am

Think man think!

Just hand grind it for now with an angle grinder. Being careful you should be able to get it real nice. And pieces are so cheap you could dork it up several times with no worries.
scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite.
Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.

Re: Glenwood #8 long burn

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:26 am

scalabro wrote:Think man think!

Just hand grind it for now with an angle grinder. Being careful you should be able to get it real nice. And pieces are so cheap you could dork it up several times with no worries.


With any of my various sized grinders, I doubt I could get the top lip shaped well enough to be the close fit needed to be as air-tight as possible. Don't want to find out that the fire can follow an air leak up into the magazine. :shock:

After making a tail stock plug, turning the top OD and forming the lip would be easy and far more accurate. However, my 7X18 tool & die makers lathe is too small. :cry:

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Glenwood #8 long burn

PostBy: wsherrick On: Wed Jul 09, 2014 2:24 am

Couldn't you get a loop of tubing or piece of long, bendable square stock to fabricate the lip part that hangs on the top. Then get some wire mesh to make the magazine shape to hang down off of that top piece. Then get some epoxy or some other molding material and use the wire frame as a support to form the magazine cylinder.
When you get it where it works, send it out and have a copy of it cast. Get two copies-one to keep forever as a master to make other copies of for yourself and all of your other Forum friends who would gladly support you in this endeavor.
And use the second one in the stove.

Would thin barrel slats work to form the body of the magazine mold? After all they use them to make barrels and nail kegs.
wsherrick
 
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Re: Glenwood #8 long burn

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:56 am

wsherrick wrote:Couldn't you get a loop of tubing or piece of long, bendable square stock to fabricate the lip part that hangs on the top. Then get some wire mesh to make the magazine shape to hang down off of that top piece. Then get some epoxy or some other molding material and use the wire frame as a support to form the magazine cylinder.
When you get it where it works, send it out and have a copy of it cast. Get two copies-one to keep forever as a master to make other copies of for yourself and all of your other Forum friends who would gladly support you in this endeavor.
And use the second one in the stove.

Would thin barrel slats work to form the body of the magazine mold? After all they use them to make barrels and nail kegs.


William,
Yes, there are any number of ways to make up a cylinder shape. The problem is getting a pattern that will insure uniformity of wall thickness in the final product. My fear is that if the cylinder walls are not a uniform thickness around the cylinder, there will be uneven heat transfer through the cylinder walls that could cause stress on the cylinder - get too much localized heat stress and it leads to cracks.

Getting the wall thickness uniform by hand is not easy. However, it's an easy and very precise job using a lathe, .... ......... of the right size.

Plan A, would be to copy an original, but so far no one knows where to get one.

Plan b, is make a pattern. Since wood work is a major part of my restoration business, I know how, but it would take many hours to make a wooden pattern. I don't specialize in wood turning so I'd still need a wood lathe larger than mine to turn the inside and outside to be uniform. To machine one out of metal - same problem. My machine lathe is not large enough either.

Plan C, while I haven't given up on plans A & B, I'm checking into getting some 6 inch, single hub, ductile iron pipe and see if a machinist friend can turn the top to be a precise fit to the stoves. While the 6 inch pipe will have reduced capacity compared to an original Glenwood magazine, I think that would be the easiest and least expensive route until more can be done about plans A & B.

Not sure why any of the stove shops haven't already "re-invented this wheel" ? The good news is that there are several members on here who are also working on this idea, so between all of us I'm sure we'll come up with a solution. Just takes time to figure out which will be the best method with what's available.

Stay tuned Glenwood owners. ;)

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Glenwood #8 long burn

PostBy: scalabro On: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:34 am

Put me down for a casting if you go that route.

Just in case I somehow manage to add a Glenwood to my collection :)
scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite.
Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.

Re: Glenwood #8 long burn

PostBy: coalnewbie On: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:42 am

7" steel pipe 0.408" wall

http://gobobpipe.com/goBobPipe.htm

I have no idea how to get this guy interested in our needs. How about I think I have the Glenwood #8 market cornered, that should do it. :)

Perhaps a Wings Best is the same.
coalnewbie
 
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Re: Glenwood #8 long burn

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:59 am

Do these measurements match your Wings Best ? The top opening of my #6 and my two 118's is 7-1/2 inch id. The magazine would have to be slightly less to drop in from the top. The flange of the magazine top edge needs to fit into an 8-1/8 od tapering to 8 inch od flange that is about 5/16 inch thick to fit the magazine recess.

To make from existing pipe, the pipe has to be made of a material that will hold up long-term inside the hottest parts of the stove. Cast iron would survive longer than most moderately priced steels for the same reasons as cast iron stoves verses steel stoves.

At that, using off the shelf manufactured pipe of the right material,...
An over-sized pipe would have to have most of it's od tuned down to under 7-1/2 inch leaving a tapered flanged edge at the top end.
Or, for smaller pipe, a flange has to be made and welded on, which likely would require turning on a lathe to true it up.
Or, a hub ended 6 inch pipe would need just the hub end turned down to form the flange.

Lots of paths to sort through.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Glenwood #8 long burn

PostBy: McGiever On: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:53 am

Some, maybe most of the small number of magazines I have seen are actually 2 pieces clam shelled
and bolted together, just like the cast iron elbows for the exhaust. I would think the halves are less prone to heat stress cracking than being one solid piece. :)
I have a couple magazines here, I can measure and post up some pics of them.
One is for a Garland Oak BB (Michigan Stove) and the other one is for a Favorite BB (Piqua,OH)
They both have scroll work in the casting and are flared bigger on one or both ends, I don't believe a lathe can produce anything like that. ;)

Might it be possible/easier to modify or re-make the top supporting flange/plate to adapt a more common re-cast magazine...of proper length etc. :?: :idea:
McGiever
 
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Re: Glenwood #8 long burn

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Wed Jul 09, 2014 9:21 am

Mac,

That's about how dlj has it described in the PDF file of his notes that he posted on page two of this thread. Two halves bolted together, slightly tapered with a faired bottom similar to other brands of stove magazines.

With the right set up and tools with a wood working lathe, making a pattern out of wood for a thin-walled cylinder, tapering into a flared shape is not difficult. Bowl turners do similar shaping a lot. But that's a very special lathe and accessories that add up to being very expensive.

Another method would be to make a core shape out of wood and then use that to make a fiber glass pattern, but that brings up other problems.

There are many ways to make molds and patterns, but not all work for all.

For instance.
Since I have some decent original fire bricks in my #6, Wilson and I have been working on making a mold to cast new #6 fire bricks. I've gone through several choices of what to make the master brick from and what to then make the molds from. I started out to make wood like the original molds were, but modern refractory material is different from the fire brick clay originally used, so I've switched to using high temp rubber for the molds. The rubber can take higher temps than wood. It will be better for working with modern refractory cement so that we have the option that the bricks can be baked in the molds to speed up production.

It's an evolution - just a matter of sorting through all the options to find the one method that gives the best results for the buck, without breaking the bank. :D

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: Glenwood #8 long burn

PostBy: McGiever On: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:10 am

Might it be possible/easier to instead modify or re-make the top supporting flange/plate to be able to then adapt a more common newly re-cast, split and bolted magazine...of proper length etc. :?: :idea:
Last edited by McGiever on Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
McGiever
 
Stoker Coal Boiler: AXEMAN-ANDERSON 130 "1959"
Hot Air Coal Stoker Stove: HARMAN MAGNUM
Hand Fed Coal Stove: RADIANT HOME AIR BLAST
Baseburners & Antiques: OUR GLENWOOD 111 BASEBURNER "1908"
Coal Size/Type: PEA / ANTHRACITE, NUT-STOVE / ANTHRACITE
Other Heating: Ground Source Heat Pump
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Re: Glenwood #8 long burn

PostBy: Pancho On: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:11 am

Food for thought. Cast iron pipe:

Cast Iron is the premier piping material for sanitary and storm drain, waste and vent applications. It has been used in these applications for hundreds of years and is for non-pressure applications where temperatures will not exceed 212° F.

It is the most durable DWV piping system available and can be used in all types of construction. It has high crush strength, is noncombustible and offers superior sound-deadening performance.


That said, I have made firebox parts for my old woodstove out of commercial hot roll steel.......that is NOT the way to go.
Pancho
 
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