Gun Thread

Re: Gun Thread

PostBy: e.alleg On: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:35 pm

I don't see the need for an automatic shotgun. A shotgun is used for close quarters where there is no time to accurately aim and more importantly to prevent damage to what is beyond the target. The shells are also big and heavy, I wouldn't want to be the soldier carrying 500 rounds of 12 gauge shells :shock:
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Re: Gun Thread

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:41 pm

e.alleg wrote:I don't see the need for an automatic shotgun. A shotgun is used for close quarters where there is no time to accurately aim and more importantly to prevent damage to what is beyond the target. The shells are also big and heavy, I wouldn't want to be the soldier carrying 500 rounds of 12 gauge shells :shock:


I agree with you from a law enforcement standpoint. From a military one however, what a devastating weapon it would be to stop an infantry assault on your fortified position! (I cant imagine anything surviving in front of a defended position where multiple such weapons were laying down a veritable wall of steel.)
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Re: Gun Thread

PostBy: e.alleg On: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:04 pm

From a military standpoint using a shotgun with an effective range of 80-120 yards (200 yards is a stretch, even with the newest sabots) against an enemy with a rifle easily capable of 300 yard kills is fruitless. They have grenades for stopping closing in masses. As for use on a fortified position, they already make a .50 caliber machine gun, that fires projectiles approx. the same size as a 12 gauge but with much greater velocity. The coolest would to load that up with incendiary rounds, that would be a sick flame thrower.
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Re: Gun Thread

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:16 pm

e.alleg wrote:From a military standpoint using a shotgun with an effective range of 80-120 yards (200 yards is a stretch, even with the newest sabots) against an enemy with a rifle easily capable of 300 yard kills is fruitless. They have grenades for stopping closing in masses. As for use on a fortified position, they already make a .50 caliber machine gun, that fires projectiles approx. the same size as a 12 gauge but with much greater velocity. The coolest would to load that up with incendiary rounds, that would be a sick flame thrower.



Dammit!! I'll think of a use for it!!! (It's just to sexy a weapon to let go)
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Re: Gun Thread

PostBy: Devil505 On: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:19 pm

e.alleg wrote:From a military standpoint using a shotgun with an effective range of 80-120 yards (200 yards is a stretch, even with the newest sabots) against an enemy with a rifle easily capable of 300 yard kills is fruitless. They have grenades for stopping closing in masses. As for use on a fortified position, they already make a .50 caliber machine gun, that fires projectiles approx. the same size as a 12 gauge but with much greater velocity. The coolest would to load that up with incendiary rounds, that would be a sick flame thrower.


Alright....How's this:

You are minding you own business (in your own back yard) & you are suddenlty & viciously attacked by wave after wave of clay pigeons descending on you from out of the blue?
Now what do you do???!?!
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Re: Gun Thread

PostBy: e.alleg On: Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:35 pm

hehe maybe some real pigeons, I don't think my barn roof could withstand too many "hunts" with that weapon though.
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Re: Gun Thread

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:50 am

Devil5052 wrote:Alright....How's this:

You are minding you own business (in your own back yard) & you are suddenlty & viciously attacked by wave after wave of clay pigeons descending on you from out of the blue?
Now what do you do???!?!


Your looking for "Metal Rain".

http://www.newscientist.com/blog/techno ... -rain.html
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Re: Gun Thread

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:52 am

coaledsweat wrote:
Devil5052 wrote:Alright....How's this:

You are minding you own business (in your own back yard) & you are suddenlty & viciously attacked by wave after wave of clay pigeons descending on you from out of the blue?
Now what do you do???!?!


Your looking for "Metal Rain".

http://www.newscientist.com/blog/techno ... -rain.html


Seen that weapon b4...Pretty scary!
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Re: Gun Thread

PostBy: LsFarm On: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:15 pm

I just recieved this via email... it is pretty good, so I thought I'd share it:

Thoughts on Guns:

The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield, and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.

As John Steinbeck once said.

1. Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.

2. If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.

3. I carry a gun because a cop is too heavy.

4. When seconds count, the cops are just minutes away.

5. A reporter did a human-interest piece on the Texas Rangers. The reporter recognized the Colt Model 1911 the Ranger was carrying and asked him "Why do carry a .45?". The Ranger responded, "Because they don't make a .46."

6. An armed man will kill an unarmed man with monotonous regularity.

7. The old sheriff was attending an awards dinner when a lady commented on his wearing his sidearm. "Sheriff, I see you have your pistol. Are you expecting trouble?" "No Ma'am. If I were expecting trouble, I would have brought my rifle."

8. Beware the man who only has one gun. HE PROBABLY KNOWS HOW TO USE IT!!!

To this I will add my comments. I was once asked by a lady visiting if I had a gun in the house, - to which I said I did. She said "well I certainly hope it isn't loaded!" To which I said, "of course it is loaded, can't work without bullets." She then asked, "Are you that afraid of some one evil coming into your house?" My reply was, "No not at all. I am not afraid of the house catching afire either, but I have fire extinguishers around, and they are all loaded too."

My addition: An unloaded gun is just a club.





US ARMY and US MARINE CORPS Rules for Gunfighting

1. Bring a gun. Preferably, bring at least two guns. Bring all of your friends who have guns.

2. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Your life is expensive.

3. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

4. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.

5. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)

6. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun.

7. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

8. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.

9. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

9.5 Use a gun that works EVERY TIME.

10. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.

11. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. Have a plan.

13. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.

14. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

15. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

16. Don't drop your guard.

17. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.

18. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them).

19. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.

20. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

21. Be polite. Be professional. But, have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.

23. Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.

24. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a ".4"





US NAVY Rules to Gunfighting

1. Go to Sea

2. Send in the Army and Marines

3. Drink Coffee
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Re: Gun Thread

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:33 pm

[quote="LsFarm"]I just recieved this via email... it is pretty good, so I thought I'd share it:

Thoughts on Guns:

Just to add to your list is a line attributed to Al Capone I believe:

"It is far easier to convince people with a kind word & a 38 revolver, than just a kind word alone."
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Re: Gun Thread

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:59 pm

Devil5052 wrote:
LsFarm wrote:Just to add to your list is a line attributed to Al Capone I believe:

"It is far easier to convince people with a kind word & a 38 revolver, than just a kind word alone."



Dutch Shultz, February 15th, 1929, "Nobody kills like Capone".
Last edited by coaledsweat on Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gun Thread

PostBy: coaledsweat On: Mon Feb 25, 2008 12:59 pm

Ooopps.
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Re: Gun Thread

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:11 pm

Another line for Greg's list:

If you're going to hit someone always use a utensil. ( from a particularly bloodthirsty DEA Agent who was in my Boston group....His claim to fame & what he always bragged about was beating someone to death with his nightstick when he was a Providence R.I. steeet cop)
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Re: Gun Thread

PostBy: coalkirk On: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:46 pm

Don't show up at a gun fight with only a knife. ;)
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Re: Gun Thread

PostBy: Devil505 On: Mon Feb 25, 2008 2:55 pm

coalkirk wrote:Don't show up at a gun fight with only a knife. ;)


Here's a few from our hero:

nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result
Winston Churchill

A prisoner of war is a man who tries to kill you and fails, and then asks you not to kill him.
Winston Churchill

When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
Winston Churchil

War is a game that is played with a smile. If you can't smile, grin. If you can't grin, keep out of the way till you can.
Winston Churchill

We shall show mercy, but we shall not ask for it.
Winston Churchill
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