?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

PostBy: KingCoal On: Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:27 am

Hi,

what is the amount of space between the lowest surface of the base chamber and the hearth / floor of your unit ?

esp. interested in suspended firepot units and large back piped or channeled units like the GW 8, Favorite etc. etc.

i would also like to know the width, length and depth of the base chamber and the heigth and dia. of the cylinder above the fire pot.

no example or info is un-needed, please add all the comments you wish.

thanks,
steve
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: ?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

PostBy: Sunny Boy On: Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:44 am

On my Glenwood #6 bh, the underside of the base pan is 5-1/2 inches from the floor.

Mine is the first of Wilson's welded plate steel pans, so I'm not 100% sure it's exactly the same depth as an original, but it's very close to proportions to base pans I've seen in pictures.

He did say that the floor under the stove very hot to the point he was concerned, so he layered shielding under it using heavy gauge sheet aluminum on top of spacers.

Base pan is 18 x 18 with about 45 degree sloping sides to 2-1/2 inch deep. From the firepot top edge - the barrel is 16 inch id x 20 inch straight cylinder - with 3 inches more height up into the cast iron semi-domed top.

The distance from the Modern Oak 118 back pipe base casting, down to the floor, is several inches higher than that. Both 118's are out in my sand blast booth now. If you need the exact measurement, and barrel measurements, let me know.

Paul
Sunny Boy
 
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Re: ?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

PostBy: steamshovel On: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:08 am

good question. the one I have is completely apart again, but measuring individual parts, vertical measurements are the following, bottom to top:

10" of airspace between the floor of the home and bottom baseheater plate. this is the open area under and behind the standing legs of the stove.

3" of space in the bottom hot gas chamber itself, where the gases circulate

7-1/2" of space for the ash pan area, with a door on the front for ash removal.

note: on this one there is a square lid in the ash pan compartment floor, that can be lifted off with a stove lid tool, to access the baseheater section. the bottom of the square lid has the round circular cast iron cone bolted to it. the gas flows around this cone in a circle, and this piece is critical, as it smooths the flow around the baseheater section, so there's no sharp 90 degree bends. this helps maintain draft.

7" firepot and grates assembly

18" magazine assembly above firepot, and there is additional few inches of airspace between firepot top and lower edge of magazine

10" bonnet on top, that slides to the left side, and automatically opens the top lid to add coal. this is 2 pieces, a heavy casting 5" high, and a small finial decoration that is 5" on top of that, total 10"

total height is around 60" plus - the top where coal is added is approx. chest height. when it's back together I'll get exact dimensions assembled.

the baseplate is approx. 22" square
steamshovel
 

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Re: ?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

PostBy: scalabro On: Sun Jul 27, 2014 1:04 pm

My Crawford No. 2 base is 7 & 3/4 off the floor. The floor directly under the MKII was WAY hotter, especially on the initial load of coal on fire up. I never understood exactly why. Maybe unlit coal on top of burning coal insulates and reflects the heat down? C2 firepot specs are posted elsewhere on the forum. It has the same ability I would guess as a Harmon MKII. I ran them both last winter within days of each other on the same chimney. They provide the same "heat". The Crawford on a lot less coal and noise.
scalabro
 
Baseburners & Antiques: Crawford 40, PP Stewart No. 14 in the works.
Coal Size/Type: Stove, Anthracite.
Other Heating: Oil fired, forced hot air.

Re: ?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

PostBy: KingCoal On: Sun Jul 27, 2014 3:46 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:On my Glenwood #6 bh, the underside of the base pan is 5-1/2 inches from the floor.

Mine is the first of Wilson's welded plate steel pans, so I'm not 100% sure it's exactly the same depth as an original, but it's very close to proportions to base pans I've seen in pictures.

He did say that the floor under the stove very hot to the point he was concerned, so he layered shielding under it using heavy gauge sheet aluminum on top of spacers.

Base pan is 18 x 18 with about 45 degree sloping sides to 2-1/2 inch deep. From the firepot top edge - the barrel is 16 inch id x 20 inch straight cylinder - with 3 inches more height up into the cast iron semi-domed top.

The distance from the Modern Oak 118 back pipe base casting, down to the floor, is several inches higher than that. Both 118's are out in my sand blast booth now. If you need the exact measurement, and barrel measurements, let me know.

Paul


thanks for the replys so far.

Paul, you read me exactly and i figure the volume of the base chamber of the #6 to be just under .50 c.f. that would make it about 1/5 the volume of the cylinder above the fire pot. cylinder volume about 2.67 c.f. base chamber about .468 c.f.

this may not be accurate enough though because it doesn't include the internal volume of the flow path from the cylinder down into the base chamber and back to the exhaust collar, that is all radiant surface and should be included in the volume of the base chamber to my thinking.

the area above the firepot in my stove is about 3.22 c.f. the projected base chamber is currently about 1.08 c.f. or roughly 1/3 that of the upper stove area. this is what i'm trying to calibrate and why i'd like numbers i can figure volume of upper stove and base chambers from.

i seem to have estimated the floor spacing of bigger stoves to be in the 8" and above realm fairly well.

i would really like to see the same #'s for the 118 if it's not a big hassle.

i would also love to see this type of #'s for a # 8, and any large full suspended firepot type stove.

steamshovel, as far as i can figure the base chamber on your stove is roughly 1/3 the volume of the cylinder above the firepot too.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: ?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

PostBy: steamshovel On: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:32 pm

here is where each section is. the firepot extends down to the hole for raker knob. there's a space between magazine bottom and firepot top.

Image
steamshovel
 

Re: ?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

PostBy: KingCoal On: Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:43 pm

yep, from looking at your thread that is what i thought you were describing. the only thing missing was a upper cylinder diameter so i used 18" to get a rough estimate for the upper stove / base chamber ratio.

is 18" close for the dia. of your stove above the fire pot or is it larger than that ?

thanks,
steve
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: ?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

PostBy: steamshovel On: Sun Jul 27, 2014 8:35 pm

the magazine height i.e. length top to bottom is 18"

the diameter of the removeable magazine insert, is much smaller than that, only the diameter of a stove lid. I have to measure it for you, but it's only around 6"-8" in diameter, for the the magazine tube itself

the diameter of the interior walls of the stove in the top section, is larger than that. the inside is as wide as the firepot o.d. to the point where it tapers down at the top of the doors. so it's around 15"-16" diameter
steamshovel
 

Re: ?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

PostBy: KingCoal On: Sun Jul 27, 2014 9:17 pm

SS, the magazine measurements will be of great interest to all of us.

i guess i over estimated the dia. of the main body of your stove but, when i did the calc's. over it still comes out to the base chamber being within .1 of 1/3 ( 33 %) of the upper stove volume.

i've been doing some more digging thru the net and this figure seems to hold up across the board, just like the 27 / 1 ratio of radiant surface area to square foot of grate space.

now if i can get some more input on air space under the base chamber of some real big base heaters i'll be ready to start welding. :D

as has been a constant refrain around here, by 1890- 1920 the fore runners had this stuff down pat. there were no new answers and all the producers were well aware of even the minutia of the highest percentages of engineered efficiency.
Last edited by KingCoal on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: ?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

PostBy: steamshovel On: Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:43 pm

I'm going to fill the firepot and magazine with coal and see how much lbs. it holds. only one way to know- measure it and find out.
you could easily weld up a baseheater design from steel plate, or bolt one together.
or take one completely apart, have all the parts cast up brand new, using the old stove as mold donor. then you have a new/old stove.
steamshovel
 

Re: ?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

PostBy: KingCoal On: Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:44 pm

member EarlH has advised that the air space under his favorite #261 is 9 "

i'm looking toward the 9-10" mark for my rebuild i think. i pretty sure it's going to be a reactor, so i'll just get it up where i will have room for sheilding under it if it's needed.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: ?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

PostBy: steamshovel On: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:27 pm

do you have a chimney already installed, and does it have good strong draft ?
you can modify that Riteway 37 into a baseburner if you science the passages out, weld a box on the bottom with a divider or cone in the center, and tie into the vertical flue riser.
steel plate won't radiate exactly like the old cast iron does.
steamshovel
 

Re: ?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

PostBy: KingCoal On: Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:55 pm

well i'm doing something like that but not with the riteway 37. that stove was able to drive you out of this house in the standard configuration. with no more primary air than a dime between the flap and the housing. :shock:

i burned that stove in 5 diff. houses from 1988 to 2012, it deserves it's retirement. i'm using some of it's parts for my base heater.

i have a double wall brick chimney in the center of the house with a SS liner. i have enough draft to stack 3 stoves on top of one another, vent them inline and still pull cats in thru the primary air inlet on the lowest one. :lol:

last yr. i had 2 MPD's in the smoke pipe, both closed, to keep my direct exhaust stove under control.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: ?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

PostBy: steamshovel On: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:26 am

build it airtight, with gaskets on the doors and windows, it will have precise draft control.
steamshovel
 

Re: ?'s for base heater operators, esp .with susp. firepot

PostBy: KingCoal On: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:30 am

will do. it's also going to have full therm. control primary air and preheated secondary.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

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