box stove to base heater conversion adventure

Re: box stove to base heater conversion adventure

PostBy: steamshovel On: Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:03 am

I've found each stove has a sweet spot and burning time, that will yield "coal to dust powder" result. coal quality also is key.
really large firepots required a higher temp and/or longer burning time, to get that result. smaller firepots would do it easier because there's less to burn, so it's "easier" for the stove to burn it to fine powder. the larger firepots give the longest burn time, there's more reserve fuel in the firebox.
there's only so much btu's in each lb. of coal, so no stove can extract more than nature put in to begin with. some just take a higher heat setting to burn it all up to the edges of the firepot, those are typically the really big stoves, or a furnace. dampen those off and there's unburned coal left around the edges, as the fire tends to go into the middle. the round pot will tend to burn coal more evenly, there's no corners for coal to get stuck in unburned. but I've seen both round and square fireboxes do equally well. those old kitchen cook stoves had square fireboxes, but baseheater-like passages, those buggers would heat as well as any parlor stove. there were quite a few old timers heating the entire house with kitchen stoves, with square or rectangular firebox !
steamshovel
 

Re: box stove to base heater conversion adventure

PostBy: KingCoal On: Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:43 am

the DSM 1400 is actually very close to burning coal completely, stopping the tubes from robbing heat out of the fire pot will likely get it the rest of the way.

my design yields the over all ratio of 27.7 / 1 radiant surface to grate area, the base chamber is 1/3 the cubic capacity of the combustion chamber, the gas passages to and the baffle created sections in the base chamber are in the same ratio of cross section as the originals.

by the numbers ( which don't nec. prove anything ) this stove should fall in the region of a GW #6 and i hope better.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: box stove to base heater conversion adventure

PostBy: KingCoal On: Tue Aug 05, 2014 9:54 am

taking the base chamber model to the fab shop this afternoon for inspection and any final changes.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

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Re: box stove to base heater conversion adventure

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:36 pm

KingCoal wrote:the DSM 1400 is actually very close to burning coal completely, stopping the tubes from robbing heat out of the fire pot will likely get it the rest of the way … my design yields the overall ratio of 27.7 / 1 radiant surface to grate area

What was the ratio for the standard DSM 1400 before you started, including the tubes?
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: box stove to base heater conversion adventure

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:45 pm

steamshovel wrote:I've found each stove has a sweet spot and burning time, that will yield "coal to dust powder" result

With the two different stoves I have used, the lower the stove temperature the finer the powder.
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: box stove to base heater conversion adventure

PostBy: KingCoal On: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:11 pm

the base chamber adds 8.18 sq ft. area directly in contact with the gas path. 4 sides and the bottom.

i hadn't considered the tubes as radiant surface before but they have a total of 4.185 sq. ft. of surface.

this is where it gets real complicated because even though their area is .105 sq. ft more than one of the large sides they insulate both large sides from the heat generated. so just having them in there i figure i'm loosing at least 4 sq ft. of functional radiant surface.

with them removed i have both large sides, 8.16 sq ft of area, directly in contact with the gas path, which is helping to insulate the firepot, heating the 8.18 sq ft. of the base chamber, and super heating my primary air.

short answer, 30.07 sq. ft. counting the tubes as radiant surface. but that includes 4.69 sq. ft. for the bottom of the ash pan that was never more than just body temp. due to it's distance from the heat and the air flow under the stove.

by my calculations i'll be WAY ahead going the base burner route because the actual net exposed and working surface will be higher. that of course is open to debate and your opinion may be different.

steve
Last edited by KingCoal on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: box stove to base heater conversion adventure

PostBy: KingCoal On: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:58 pm

rberq wrote:
steamshovel wrote:I've found each stove has a sweet spot and burning time, that will yield "coal to dust powder" result

With the two different stoves I have used, the lower the stove temperature the finer the powder.


that is very interesting and is my experience with the DSM 1400. i found that the coal was indeed more completely consumed while i was doing low out put experiments than when i was running at 450* + thru out the cold weather.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: box stove to base heater conversion adventure

PostBy: KingCoal On: Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:28 pm

just back from the shop. everything is a go, all the dimensions and placements passed his inspection.

we will begin cutting, forming and welding the base chamber tomorrow evening after hours.

sure is great to have friends who are mechanical engineers with a full machine and fab shop !! :D
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: box stove to base heater conversion adventure

PostBy: rberq On: Tue Aug 05, 2014 7:32 pm

Too soon for pictures, I guess. But how about a hand-drawn sketch of the design, scan it and display it here?
rberq
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: DS Machine 1300
Coal Size/Type: Nut -- Kimmel/Blaschak/Reading
Other Heating: Oil hot water radiators, propane

Re: box stove to base heater conversion adventure

PostBy: KingCoal On: Wed Aug 06, 2014 5:42 am

for a quick idea of the chamber layout you can look at EarlH 's cool thread here.

Favorite Baseburner #261

in his second post there is a pic of the interior of his base chamber. mine is much the same, though i went a diff. way with the baffles and they are on the bottom of the chamber not the top. the gasses in mine will come down into the outer sections from above, near the outer wall, not from outside / behind like Earl's.

mines plate steel and all structural function, not lovely like the originals. :(
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: box stove to base heater conversion adventure

PostBy: KingCoal On: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:41 am

well you know how plans go............................

anyway, the work time frame got pushed back to from 7:00 to 9:00, so , we got all the panels cut, the 90's turned for the bolt flanges, and the exit hole plasma cut for the exhaust exit in the back panel.

forgot to take the camera, nothing standing anyway, so it would have just been pieces of metal with a few angles.

thanks,
steve
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: box stove to base heater conversion adventure

PostBy: BPatrick On: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:09 pm

Hey Kingcoal,

I cannot wait to hear how this modification on a great stove works. Of course I hope to get an invitation to see it up and running! ;)
BPatrick
 
Baseburners & Antiques: 2 Crawford 40 Baseheaters
Coal Size/Type: Stove Coal
Other Heating: Herald Oak No. 18

Re: box stove to base heater conversion adventure

PostBy: KingCoal On: Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:21 pm

Hi B,

how are you, hands healed up yet ? any word on the progress of your Crawford ?

there will be pics here and a demo. if you'd like. :)
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: box stove to base heater conversion adventure

PostBy: KingCoal On: Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:33 am

the 8 wide by 4 tall tube that is both the internal base chamber baffle and exhaust exit path was welded into / through the base chamber back wall yesterday.

the next work will have to wait till next Wed. evening.

will be ordering a new front load door glass and 6" collar from DSM this afternoon. need to get some flat woven gasket and fire brick rounded up too.
KingCoal
 
Hand Fed Coal Stove: Riteway # 37, Comforter Stove Works
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Re: box stove to base heater conversion adventure

PostBy: BPatrick On: Fri Aug 08, 2014 1:33 pm

Hi King,

Left hand is doing well, right hand is having issues and will probably need a surgery, but our insurance really sucks and I don't want to finance a hand right now! I'm really careful with it and manage. The stove was shipped out to Emery a week ago and he says it will be a quick turn around. I will have it back and up and running in plenty of time for fall, which I think is going to be harsh this season. I'm excited to see a demo of the stove when it's up and running.

Brian
BPatrick
 
Baseburners & Antiques: 2 Crawford 40 Baseheaters
Coal Size/Type: Stove Coal
Other Heating: Herald Oak No. 18

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