Box Stove to Base Heater Conversion Adventure

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KingCoal
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Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Fri. Aug. 15, 2014 11:42 am

Sunny Boy wrote:You've got some leeway in that the flue gases can speed up and slow down as the cross sections of the areas it travels through change.

The other thing is, how fast do you want those flue gases going ? Obviously, the bigger the pathway the slower the gases travel giving time to shed heat. The reverse argument is that a large cross section pathway lets heat stay in the center of the pathway, away from the walls. Maybe more study of older stove's flue gas pathway proportions will give you a ratio like you found with your firepot's 27:1 ????

Paul
yes, I have been looking at alot of patent drawings and pics of gas travel paths, considering the sq. in. area of the exits out of the upper chamber of suspended pot base burners and the cross section of the passage ways.

most of what i'm seeing is 6" final exit collars and 2 combustion chamber exits of about 4 x 4 into the drop path passages toward the base chamber. like on the Favorite #261. some others are harder to calculate because they are in a ring around the fire pot.

anyway the ratio seems to be between 15 and 30% more than the collar. in my case because i'll be using multiple openings it's going to be toward the upper end.

it wasn't really a mystery, I just think out load too much. :oops:
Last edited by KingCoal on Sat. Aug. 16, 2014 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.


 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4833
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Fri. Aug. 15, 2014 12:36 pm

Rev. Larry,

looked those clean out plates up online. I can do that super easy.

thanks a million.

 
KingCoal
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Posts: 4833
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Sat. Aug. 16, 2014 12:45 pm

ok, the weld up is completed. now I need to cut in a clean out port and attach the new 8" legs.

i can then do some positioning with the original stove to locate the new lower exit collar.

i'll be going ahead with the few mods needed on the stove and getting up some more pics.

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4833
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Mon. Aug. 18, 2014 9:44 am

KingCoal wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:You've got some leeway in that the flue gases can speed up and slow down as the cross sections of the areas it travels through change.

The other thing is, how fast do you want those flue gases going ? Obviously, the bigger the pathway the slower the gases travel giving time to shed heat. The reverse argument is that a large cross section pathway lets heat stay in the center of the pathway, away from the walls. Maybe more study of older stove's flue gas pathway proportions will give you a ratio like you found with your firepot's 27:1 ????

Paul
yes, I have been looking at alot of patent drawings and pics of gas travel paths, considering the sq. in. area of the exits out of the upper chamber of suspended pot base burners and the cross section of the passage ways.

most of what i'm seeing is 6" final exit collars and 2 combustion chamber exits of about 4 x 4 into the drop path passages toward the base chamber. like on the Favorite #261. some others are harder to calculate because they are in a ring around the fire pot.

anyway the ratio seems to be between 15 and 30% more than the collar. in my case because i'll be using multiple openings it's going to be toward the upper end.

it wasn't really a mystery, I just think out load too much. :oops:
after some closer examination, it's clear that with some careful expansion of the present openings that the tubes pass thru I can achieve 36.25 sq. in. or 28% more area than the 6" collar / 28.26 sq. in.

this is so close that I am just going to go that route as a starting point.

i have enough room to add more openings, with the stove assembled, later if I need to.

at present rate I "might" have the stove ready to test by the 1st, though there is just as good a chance not since I seem to be getting blindsided with stuff alot lately. :mad:

 
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BPatrick
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Location: Cassopolis, MI
Baseburners & Antiques: 2 Crawford 40 Baseheaters
Coal Size/Type: Stove Coal
Other Heating: Herald Oak No. 18

Post by BPatrick » Mon. Aug. 18, 2014 2:06 pm

wow...sounds like it's coming along nicely.

 
KingCoal
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Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Mon. Aug. 18, 2014 3:13 pm

yes, i'm going by this afternoon to lay out the clean out port, sheer the straps to make the new legs.

then i'm going home to install another replacement window before dark then, start the mods to the stove it self.

 
KingCoal
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Posts: 4833
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Mon. Aug. 18, 2014 9:14 pm

got to love guys who are enthusiastic about what they do :D

received my new door glass and exit collar from DSM today. that means things are going to move right along this week.

the weather is going to get rainy with T storms the next couple days so no more work on the house windows till the week end.

plenty of time to spend on the stove.


 
KingCoal
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Posts: 4833
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Tue. Aug. 19, 2014 7:14 am

in an attempt to make things simpler and to save band width on the forum i'm going to use a link to some pics already here to show some of what is happening with the stove.

in these pics you see the baffle plate and tubes in my stove. the baffle plate is being removed to make space for the new direct / indirect baffle inside the stove at the collar. the present baffle will then be altered slightly and put back in service.

the tubes will be cut loose about 1-2 in. down from the top of the stove, whatever is easy to get a tool into to work. they will also be cut flush with the top of the bracket that holds the fire brick in place and the tack welds released from the back of the fire pot liner. the tubes will then be ground loose from the bottom of the stove body and removed completely. the holes will then be enlarged to get the sq. in. area desired.

the openings in the top of the stove will be covered with plate and welded closed.

i have devised a full shut off damper to install in the bottom of the new base chamber exit tube to be closed when running in direct draft mode so that the stove is not trying to pull both directions and stall the draft. the internal damper at the top collar will handle that when in base heat mode. I will have new pics of this later.

New DSM Circulator Baffle Plate W / Pics

thanks,
steve

 
KingCoal
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Posts: 4833
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Tue. Aug. 19, 2014 7:12 pm

well,i never !! :mad:

got home in a torrential downpour, got a lamp in the stove in the living room and started up the angle grinder.

less than 1 min. later the plug was pulled behind my back and I was told, in quite unfriendly terms, " you can take it to the shop to do that. "

so much for shared living space and interests, humbug.

guess i'm not getting anything done tonight.

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Tue. Aug. 19, 2014 7:30 pm

At least you got an alternative suggestion rather than just STOP!

We get too soon oldt und too late schmart.

 
KingCoal
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Posts: 4833
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Tue. Aug. 19, 2014 7:39 pm

We get too soon oldt und too late schmart.[/quote] franco b

that sounds just like my grandmother, who was born in Lancaster County in 1897 and lived 98 yrs, passed in full control of her faculties and could tell you all about the march of progress. radio, airplanes, cars etc. and how they changed things.

one of her favorites was " the hurrier I go the behinder I git "

i sure miss her.

 
franco b
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Post by franco b » Tue. Aug. 19, 2014 8:38 pm

KingCoal wrote:one of her favorites was " the hurrier I go the behinder I git "
Good one, and often very true.

 
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Sunny Boy
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Post by Sunny Boy » Tue. Aug. 19, 2014 8:58 pm

KingCoal wrote:well,i never !! :mad:

got home in a torrential downpour, got a lamp in the stove in the living room and started up the angle grinder.

less than 1 min. later the plug was pulled behind my back and I was told, in quite unfriendly terms, " you can take it to the shop to do that. "

so much for shared living space and interests, humbug.

guess i'm not getting anything done tonight.
Yeah, I lived with one of those types, . . . up until the divorce.

She got mad when she came home and found me, her bottle brushes, laundry detergent, and my AMX short block, all in the tub for a cleaning session after it got it back from the machine shop that bored out the cylinders. Then it was complaints about lapping valve seats in the cylinder heads on the coffee table while watching TV. The last straw was painting the white linoleum floor of her sewing room Ford blue when I did the final engine painting before putting it all together.

Next place we lived in, I made sure it had a garage ! ;)

Paul

 
KingCoal
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Posts: 4833
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Wed. Aug. 20, 2014 5:25 am

i'm pretty sure it was more about me than "her" type.

i've been delightedly married to her for 34 yrs and have just enough schmartz to know i'm too auldt to start training another one.

:idea:

 
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blrman07
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Post by blrman07 » Wed. Aug. 20, 2014 7:24 am

Wife and I just celebrated 42 years together. Guys you have to know when you have pushed the limits. After a while, you have no problem knowing where that line is at.....

Like the song says...you got ta know when to hold em....know when to fold em....

Rev. Larry
New Beginning Church
Ashland


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