Box Stove to Base Heater Conversion Adventure

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Wed. Jan. 21, 2015 10:23 am

hotblast1357 wrote:Idk if that is a accurate way too measure your coal usage though Steve.
which is why I didn't post average use. I posted daily use, because I weigh my coal as it goes in the stove.

this morning I could only get 12 #'s of coal in the stove. the house was 72* and felt too warm so I turned it down another 1/4 mark on the bi-metal. i'll see what goes in tonight.


 
User avatar
hotblast1357
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Wed. Jan. 21, 2015 11:58 am

Ok would it be a good method too go by for the whole season? Or would HDD's be better?

 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Wed. Jan. 21, 2015 12:07 pm

hotblast1357 wrote:Ok would it be a good method too go by for the whole season? Or would HDD's be better?
Daily or at least weekly HDD's vs. consumption is far and away better, followed by monthly. There is little to be learned from a single yearly snapshot.

 
User avatar
hotblast1357
Member
Posts: 5657
Joined: Mon. Mar. 10, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Peasleeville NY
Stoker Coal Boiler: 1984 Eshland S260 coal gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh anthracite pea
Other Heating: air source heat pump, oil furnace

Post by hotblast1357 » Wed. Jan. 21, 2015 12:24 pm

Ok I have the info for HDD's also

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Wed. Jan. 21, 2015 7:11 pm

lsayre wrote:
hotblast1357 wrote:Ok would it be a good method too go by for the whole season? Or would HDD's be better?
Daily or at least weekly HDD's vs. consumption is far and away better, followed by monthly. There is little to be learned from a single yearly snapshot.
OK, I tracked Sun thru Tues. got 95 HDD's, logged 88.75 #'s of coal so, is that .9244791 #'s per HDD during the period ?

thanks,
steve

 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Wed. Jan. 21, 2015 7:18 pm

KingCoal wrote: OK, I tracked Sun thru Tues. got 95 HDD's, logged 88.75 #'s of coal so, is that .9244791 #'s per HDD during the period ?

thanks,
steve
Yes! I get 0.934 lbs. per HDD, but you are close enough!

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Wed. Jan. 21, 2015 7:22 pm

yes, recalculating shows you are correct. I don't know what I must have put in the first time. :oops:

very much appreciated, thanks Larry.

steve


 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Wed. Jan. 21, 2015 8:53 pm

KingCoal wrote:
lsayre wrote:Elkhart, IN racked up 6,671 HDD's from October of 2013 through April of 2014. That comes to 1.72 lbs. per HDD for the DS-1500 before conversion.

By comparison, the 2012-2013 heating season racked up 5,767 HDD's over the same span of months. That equates to 9,900 lbs. of coal through the DS-1500.
OK, I promised myself I wouldn't do this but I changed my mind. :whistle:

using the historical data available on Weatherunderground, I calculated 3095 HDD's from Oct. 8, 2014 to Jan. 18, 2015.

i could be off, if doubtful, please double check using 46550 / NTA Test Lab as the location.

i have used 3000#'s of coal during this period so, if I understand the formula correctly, it seems i'm now using .9693053 #'s of coal per HDD.

:poke:

steve
I have seen an error in my understanding about parts of the above 2 quotes and wish to address them.

1st, in the comment Lsayre made about the 1.72 #'s per HDD last yr. because it was based on the total fuel used and the total HDD's in the observed period that number represents the "average" of use per HDD.

2nd, the same is true of the use and HDD figures I gave for this yr. from Oct. 8- Jan.18. the calculation drawn from those figures represents the "average" fuel use for HDD's as well.

might not seem like much to others but it is something I feel I was not giving attention and holding in it's proper perspective.

earlier this evening I PMed Larry for some help in tracking short periods (3 days) of burn and reporting reliable results specific to that finite period, and he was kind enough to do so.

all this has helped me appreciate that just like minding the fire to meet weather and comfort needs, the tracking of fuel use in a hand fed is always in flux and will of course be constantly changing.

thanks for watching the thread,
steve

 
KingCoal
Member
Posts: 4837
Joined: Wed. Apr. 03, 2013 1:24 pm
Location: Elkhart county, IN.
Hand Fed Coal Stove: 1 comforter stove works all iron coal box stove, seventies.
Baseburners & Antiques: 2014 DTS C17 Base Burner, GW #6, GW 113 formerly Sir Williams, maybe others at Pauliewog’s I’ve forgotten about
Coal Size/Type: Nut Anth.
Other Heating: none

Post by KingCoal » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 7:46 am

here's a couple examples of what I mean.

early in Oct. I used 12#'s of coal thru a day that was reported to have 16 HDD. that's .75 #'s per HDD in those conditions, or .5 #'s per hour

this month I used 72#'s during a day reported to have 64 HDD. that's 1.125 #'s per HDD in those conditions, or 3 #'s per hour.

steve

 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 8:06 am

KingCoal wrote:here's a couple examples of what I mean.

early in Oct. I used 12#'s of coal thru a day that was reported to have 16 HDD. that's .75 #'s per HDD in those conditions, or .5 #'s per hour

this month I used 72#'s during a day reported to have 64 HDD. that's 1.125 #'s per HDD in those conditions, or 3 #'s per hour.

steve
I can see where that would happen. I now believe that daily is going to show such deviations, and that your consumption vs. HDD results should be statistically "smoothed" over 3 HDD (3 day) periods, due to variations including your feeding times vs. the times when the weather services compute their daily highs and lows (midnight to midnight most likely), from which they derive their daily HD's.

I feed my boiler most typically every 3 days (every 2 days only when its really cold outside), so I naturally benefit from such HDD data vs. consumption "smoothing", and I do not see the more radical daily deviations (which tend to smooth out and disappear over time).

I mentioned in a previous post to a different thread that over 3 day feeding periods I'm generally within 90% vs. forecast (projected) via HDD's, and over a month I'm generally within (or at better than) 95% precision. If I'm only in agreement to about 90% over any given 3 days, I can see where I might be only good to about 75-80% if I monitored this daily.

I also have the distinct advantage of tight thermostatic control of room temperatures, which a hand fired stove will never have. This will mean that for a hand fired stove the deviations will naturally be larger vs. HDD's (and perhaps much larger), since this level of room to room temperature control is not possible for a hand fired stove. The ability to tightly control the room temperatures over 4 distinct zones of the home makes consumption vs. HDD's far more linear.

 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 5:14 pm

There is one additional thing that must be considered. For any stove or boiler there is a certain minimum amount of coal that must be consumed just to keep the fire going on a warmer day. For me this is around 15 lbs. Anytime I burn 15 lbs. I can't count those HDD's. I would assume that for Steve's stove there is also a lower limit threshold of lbs. burned that must be consumed regardless of the days actual HDD's. All of that coal must be discounted vs. HDD's, since HDD's are not the factor that is driving their consumption. Another reason why merely summing up a seasons worth of coal consumption and a seasons worth of HDDs is unreliable.

 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25567
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 5:59 pm

Larry,

So, are you saying there's no way to know how much coal a stove burns?

Paul

 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 6:02 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:Larry,

So, are you saying there's no way to know how much coal a stove burns?

Paul
:?: :?: :?:

 
User avatar
Sunny Boy
Member
Posts: 25567
Joined: Mon. Nov. 11, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: Central NY
Hand Fed Coal Boiler: Anthracite Industrial, domestic hot water heater
Baseburners & Antiques: Glenwood range 208, # 6 base heater, 2 Modern Oak 118.
Coal Size/Type: Nuts !
Other Heating: Oil &electric plenum furnace

Post by Sunny Boy » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 6:09 pm

lsayre wrote:
Sunny Boy wrote:Larry,

So, are you saying there's no way to know how much coal a stove burns?

Paul
:?: :?: :?:
Larry,
My question was in regards to your last line of your last post.

" .................... Another reason why merely summing up a seasons worth of coal consumption and a seasons worth of HDDs is unreliable.

Paul

 
User avatar
lsayre
Member
Posts: 21781
Joined: Wed. Nov. 23, 2005 9:17 pm
Location: Ohio
Stoker Coal Boiler: AHS S130 Coal Gun
Coal Size/Type: Lehigh Anthracite Pea
Other Heating: Resistance Boiler (13.5 KW), ComfortMax 75

Post by lsayre » Thu. Jan. 22, 2015 6:15 pm

Sunny Boy wrote:Larry,
My question was in regards to your last line of your last post.

" .................... Another reason why merely summing up a seasons worth of coal consumption and a seasons worth of HDDs is unreliable.

Paul
If you are comparing coal consumption vs. HDD's, then on those days when you must burn a certain amount of coal merely to sustain your fire and not to counter the cooling effect of HDD's, then for those days both the HDD's and the consumption should be discarded. About a quarter to a third of October is generally like this for me, and then it occurs again in April/May. It's much more rare when it happens in the months that lie between these extremes, but it can happen


Post Reply

Return to “Hand Fired Coal Stoves & Furnaces Using Anthracite”