How Can I Take the 30% Federal Tax Credit for Solar If ...

Berlin wrote:I was just curious to see the rationalization.

Well, I threw pretty much the whole nine yards worth of rationalizing spin at it, that's for sure. How did I do?

“Rationalization is a process of not perceiving reality, but of attempting to make reality fit one’s emotions.”
― Ayn Rand

introspection is the sign of an intelligent man upon reflection of rationalization fallen short...

Berlin wrote:introspection is the sign of an intelligent man upon reflection of rationalization fallen short...

Quite true! I presume that most of us are guilty of this to one degree or another. Who among us would not accept unemployment compensation or Social Security checks for example? When it comes to rationalization, it's merely a matter of degree.

But when one realizes that Mom and Dad were wrong, and money really does grow on trees..... (Hmmm, ???)

And to answer myself on this Mom and Dad and money poser I toss this quote at myself to smack myself into a full state of being awake and aware:

"Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong."
Ayn Rand

So either Mom and Dad were wrong, or money does not grow on trees. The ramifications of this with respect to our future as a nation (as well as to individual morality, myself included) are staggering.

The only truly principled person I ever heard of was my wife's great uncle who upon the introduction of the permanent income tax said "No way I'm paying the government to go to work everyday" and promptly quit his job and became homeless. He lived on the street and whatever handout he got from family or the church.

If everyone in 1913 had those principles, we might be much better off today.

jpete wrote:The only truly principled person I ever heard of was my wife's great uncle who upon the introduction of the permanent income tax said "No way I'm paying the government to go to work everyday" and promptly quit his job and became homeless. He lived on the street and whatever handout he got from family or the church.

If everyone in 1913 had those principles, we might be much better off today.

Ahead of his time. Too bad more did not follow. And Larry its already too late for most of us, we already proved we can work. When I had my garage I knew a few people that knew every angle of how to get "free money" I Ithink if you work and pay in you should be even more entitled. But hey they need voters so they need to play both sides.

jpete wrote:The only truly principled person I ever heard of was my wife's great uncle who upon the introduction of the permanent income tax said "No way I'm paying the government to go to work everyday" and promptly quit his job and became homeless. He lived on the street and whatever handout he got from family or the church.

If everyone in 1913 had those principles, we might be much better off today.

Talk about Shrugging! A real world example of Atlas Shrugged, albeit with a bit of a twist.

Larry, the 30% is STILL no bargain, besides we have to send all the money to Africa now......burn a little more coal, you AIN'T gonna save a dime in the long run, and the 'Cheeze Program' hopefully will be discontinued.

How much does this 'solar miracle cost anyway? 60 to 80K? Off the grid is not a reality for but a few.....and battery technology is now where it needs to be.

Sadly, I can only get 75-80% of my calculated demand to free itself from the grid, so I can't get rid of the meter. The 240VAC stuff is tough to free from the grid. A/C, Dryer, HWT (albeit unused), and Range/Oven would all need to remain on the grid. The cost to take only my 120VAC stuff off grid would be (at best) $21K. This is looking like a losing proposition financially.

I've monitored the clothes dryer, and it eats nearly 5,000 Watts per hour. It's the champion electricity eater. The oven is drawing somewhere around 2,500 Watts per hour. We have been doing most all of our cooking with a stand alone 120VAC induction burner that pulls down 980 Watts and 1,180 Watts on the two settings we use most. That is about 60% of the roughly 1,800 Watts that the range top burners suck down. And we got the induction burner for $48 on sale a few years ago. Paid for itself a few times over by now. And is faster to heat up and far more temperature controllable than the range top burners to boot.

During 2 weeks of daily monitoring, on the days with none of the 240VAC stuff running we're averaging 12,000 Watts consumed per day. But when my wife did 3 loads of laundry this week we pulled down 26,500 Watts for that day alone.

Is the $21k before the tax credit or after? Have you looked at the cost if you just had the solar panels without the battery bank? If you did I am curious what you found that number to be per KW. I looked at it a few years ago and my cost estimate was about $15k.

I need to go through the exercise again since solar panel and inverter cost has come down since then.

titleist1 wrote:Is the $21k before the tax credit or after? Have you looked at the cost if you just had the solar panels without the battery bank? If you did I am curious what you found that number to be per KW. I looked at it a few years ago and my cost estimate was about $15k.

I need to go through the exercise again since solar panel and inverter cost has come down since then.

The $21K is before the 30% energy tax credit, and the batteries are nearly $6K of it. So take out the batteries and its about $15K.

With the newly imposed higher tariffs on foreign solar stuff, prices are going to break the trend and begin rising soon. It's all about saving an American industry that is going extinct.

Thanks for the info I have to find my spreadsheet on an old laptop or on the external hard drive and see if the costs I had in there have changed significantly.

Find others that have went off grid and talk to them. I doubt very many of them are trying to use electric clothes dryers, AC other than a window model, or electric ranges off of batteries. It just doesnt work that well. I cant imagine the drain an electric oven would put on a battery setup.

Gas Dryer if you use a dryer at all. Fans in the windows or a small window AC maybe, and a gas or wood/coal range or you might as well just forget the whole thing. Your trying to keep the same lifestyle with the same frills and it just isnt economical.

You using the 12KW daily without the frills is what you should be starting with. Then cut back on those 12KW. Netbooks and handhelds, maybe a laptop. Low watt bulbs or even LCD bulbs in the whole house other than outside. Lower wattage outdoor yard lights. The new larger TV's stay under 100 watts. New fridge or gas one. Rechargeable everything that can be recharged in your car. You may be able to get under 10KW daily. Im running at 8 or 9 right now as I got frugal this spring and I have a electric water heater but live by myself. (maybe thats why, lol) Just saying.....

And 12KW isn't too bad either. Throw them KW eaters away and even then your electric bill wouldnt be too bad.

Larry, I have several friends that have solar hot water heated, and photovoltaic; and the consensus is to skip the batteries and sell it back to the grid. Technology isn't where we need it to be yet for batteries and solar heated water is doable, reasonable, and effective...but still not cheap. You are pretty efficient right now, and there is no such thing as a 'perfect package' in alternative fuels. Just a thought.......

whistlenut wrote:Larry, I have several friends that have solar hot water heated, and photovoltaic; and the consensus is to skip the batteries and sell it back to the grid. Technology isn't where we need it to be yet for batteries and solar heated water is doable, reasonable, and effective...but still not cheap. You are pretty efficient right now, and there is no such thing as a 'perfect package' in alternative fuels. Just a thought.......

This I agree is easily the best way to actually achieve payback and then ultimately benefit from the financial perspective, but the grid-tied systems go down whenever the communities power grid fails, so they offer zero in the way of providing power to a home when the grid is down.

How does the grid being down prevent you from making power?