From OWB to EFM520 Installed in Truck Box

 
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Sting
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Post by Sting » Mon. Sep. 15, 2014 1:15 pm

Rob is correct - air scoop in installed at the point of no pressure [change]

see here for more
Post by Sting - Pumping Away


 
Mark (PA)
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Post by Mark (PA) » Mon. Sep. 15, 2014 1:16 pm

Manifolds do save plenty of time on the install (if you are doing some RADIANT loops etc especially). I am a fan of WATTS Radiant Manifolds shown below. Obivously if you don't want the flow controls you can buy cheaper units. all in what you want etc.

I will say that if you are running multiple loops on one zone thermostat and the Zones are of different lengths of PEX the flow controls are a must and the gauges on the return make it very easy to see the differences to your loops.... it allows you to regulate the flow so the space heats more evenly etc.

http://www.zoro.com/i/G4065162/?utm_source=google ... MgodUyQAhA

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Mon. Sep. 15, 2014 1:29 pm

THANKS Rob, those links are great, I really like those manifolds !!!! Nice valve for the tank too,but why the extra hole in that valve & what goes in it ? You did mention earlier about flange valves with the drain built in,would it be necessary to install that style on each side of the pump? or put one of those & one of the regular flange valves at each pump ?

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Mon. Sep. 15, 2014 2:22 pm

Mark(PA),thanks for that link but if I was to buy that I would have spent more than a ton of coal would cost.

 
Mark (PA)
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Post by Mark (PA) » Mon. Sep. 15, 2014 2:34 pm

Like I said there at the end of the first paragraph. Its all in what you want.

I know they are pricey but EFM's brand new don't come cheap for a reason either.... Built to last. Not that a cheaper manifold won't last simply, All in what you want! :D

for some applications it makes it easier to set your heating requirements for a zone and so forth.

Carry on!

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Mon. Sep. 15, 2014 2:41 pm

Sting,we have butted heads b4 & I often bypass your comments in other threads partly because of that & partly because your talk often just goes over my head. THANKS MUCH for that link,it was easy reading(for the most part) fairly easy to understand & makes very good sense even to those like me without boiler experience. :up: Clears up any doubt I had about the away from/to pumping. Since all the loops to the buildings are 1" pex,& I just miked the fittings at .710 ,so a little less then .75" ,that will restrict the flow more than the 1" pipe feeding the pump. :D

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Mon. Sep. 15, 2014 2:50 pm

Thanks again, Mark(PA),maybe someday I will be rich enough to purchase things like that but meantime my 1960 round door EFM520 will just have to heat its water for plain ordinary piping. :)


 
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Rob R.
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Post by Rob R. » Mon. Sep. 15, 2014 6:59 pm

windyhill4.2 wrote:THANKS Rob, those links are great, I really like those manifolds !!!! Nice valve for the tank too,but why the extra hole in that valve & what goes in it ? You did mention earlier about flange valves with the drain built in,would it be necessary to install that style on each side of the pump? or put one of those & one of the regular flange valves at each pump ?
The extra hole is for the fill valve. If you don't want to use it just plug it (but you should use it). The drain on the side of that valve is so you can isolate the expansion tank and bleed the pressure out of it. very handy for changing the tank (you don't get sprayed with water), and also handy to check the air pressure in the tank without depressurizing the entire system.

As for the pump flanges, you don't need to use the ones with the drains...it is just a convenience. You could also order two of each style, then you could have a drain on one side of the pump and not the other.

 
Mark (PA)
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Post by Mark (PA) » Mon. Sep. 15, 2014 8:10 pm

Windy I like it...

don't worry I'm on your side about being economical. my EFM is a 1953 Round door Highboy... that was refurbed also. and I stole it compared to todays prices on Refurbs so I won't even post it!

I love the watts manifolds. But they are darn expensive.

I do want to say that STING has directed me to about everything I know in regard to Hydronic Heating. He and I got aquainted on a Forum that was for people burning CORN at one time. I had migrated to Coal 6 years ago when Ethonal started negating good prices on Corn... Time flys. Rebuilt my entire system as you are doing now with His help and reading recommended books (by Sting's direction) by Dan Holohan such at Pumping away. So we all started somewhere on these projects right! we are all behind you and just offering all kinds of advice some you won't need of course but success is the end goal! I'm not rich in Money but I am rich in Family i'll say that anyway!

And if you have any cash left over from buying a cheaper manifold :D :D :D Buy this book and all your pumping questions will be answered in VERY understandable and often very commical reading. I loaned my Pumping away book to an HVAC master plumber local to me a few years ago and he loved it. thought it was a great read... and again. Very easy to understand. Ok i'm done yacking.... !~

http://www.amazon.com/Pumping-away-options-hydron ... B0006PCBB0

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Mon. Sep. 15, 2014 9:35 pm

M(PA),i wasn't trying to make it sound like you where real rich,just saying if I ever become rich,give me those watts manifolds,keep the rolls royce :lol: Thanks to all who contributed thoughts ,opinions,options & good info links today,we covered quite a bit. We still do not have the boiler setting on the base,had a delay in getting a lift to do the job,so for now we are tying up loose ends where ever we can.

 
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windyhill4.2
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Tue. Sep. 16, 2014 8:56 am

[quote="Mark (PA)"]Windy

YES put bleeders at the farthest points in your loops before they drop back down to the boiler to help remove air.

In other words the highest points in the loops so to speak. hopefully that makes sense. You can certainly put more than that but those locations really are the most helpful.

If you are pumping away from your boiler ( which you should be ;) ;) ) you can use your pumps to help purge the zones as well.

.Do I need to put air bleeders at the far points even if they are lower than the boiler ?? I looked at a lot of install pics,can,t find much on air bleeders & where all they get installed.Those who have their boiler in the basement & loops running to second floor have to install air bleeders on the second floor ? In our case the shop heaters are the only loop higher than the boiler,do I need to install an air scoop as well as a bleeder ?

 
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Post by McGiever » Tue. Sep. 16, 2014 9:23 am

Think of it this way, bleeders are for releasing pockets of trapped air while the scoop gets the other air that is not trapped, but is traveling as suspended tiny air bubbles in the moving water. (flow) :)
Last edited by McGiever on Tue. Sep. 16, 2014 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

 
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Post by lzaharis » Tue. Sep. 16, 2014 9:37 am

Please look at http://www.spirotherm.com to get a better idea about bleeding air
from a hydronic heating system.

You can use the spirovent junior air vents that also trap any dirt and debris.

I absolutely detest my baseboard heating system and it bleeders at the corners.

If you have toom for the spirovents you should uzse them as they are much better to
use than the manual bleeders and more efficient and you don't have to worry about losing the
mickey mouse eared bleeder keys- I remebered to tie a bleeder key to the elbow at the highest point in my system because I can never find the bloody things.

The B+G Pump folks told me to operate the three speed pumps at the highest setting to bled the air from my loop when I replaced my Taco pumps that had been in service for 22 years.

 
Mark (PA)
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Post by Mark (PA) » Tue. Sep. 16, 2014 9:44 am

The other guys have it pretty well covered... you do certainly want an Air Scoop and bleeder valves in your system...

air scoop removes Suspended air and air bleeder mechanism's remove trapped or pockets of air from your system that collects over time.

Usually the top floor of the highest loop is a great place for air to stop because the pressure in the loop does not force it back down to the boiler so it will collect there. maybe best to take a look at your system to see where you might imagine a good place for air to stop. Typically it will collect at points that it is easier to drop out of the water flow than be forced down or back toward your boiler...

maybe systems that are baseboard put an air bleed at the far side of the last baseboard run before it returns or drops to lower levels.

whereever your highest points are in the system you should certainly have some air removal of some type. whether it is more automatic or you have to get the "key" to open them periodically.

 
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Post by windyhill4.2 » Tue. Sep. 16, 2014 9:56 am

Thanks to all who replied,i now have more work,more air bleeders to buy,more valves to buy & install under those extra bleeders. My next system is just going to move hot air,so much easier.


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